fair to ask for ABOVE range given1999-2003 I was a Webmaster/Web Producer for a non-profit in DE making $60K (after only 2yrs experience plus one year with them). I was responsible for all things, except hosting and writing the content. For two years I consulted with very small businesses. I have proven results of improving traffic (nonprofit) and money (small bizs'). Since November I have been contracting at a VERY high profile company (its .com made $1billion last year... has its own cable channel), but doing very low profile work for $24.50/hour (x 40hr/wk x 50wk/year= $49K) - and just getting by (trying to live like a grown-up/pay down debt). I have been offered $50K by a small but growing b-2-b. I would like $55K (which I feel is still low given my experience). Problem being, they stated clearly the range $30-50K (w/ 2+ years experience) in the ad. However, the CEO was confident that he'd be willing to spend what they needed to make their web/e-commerce site better, using my recommendations. So what's an extra $5K for 4 extra years of expierence? Right? Wrong? I'm thinking of writing back with... "here's what I should be making based on X,Y,Z... and *I* only want offer + $5K... otherwise I feel that I am under-cutting myself too much." Okay? Not okay? Fair? Unfair? Thanks in advance for any advice on this situation. Raph. There's no point in changing jobs for the same money. Most advice is to get at least a 10% raise, so $5K more is reasonable. Whether they will go for it or not is another question. Since you already have a job, what do you have to lose? Is this an actual job with benefits and everything as an employee of the company or is this another contracting/freelance assignment? If it is a real job, you should consider that benefits make up about 30% over your salary. Also, many companies don't hire an in house guy to do what you do. They contract it out and then figure they'll figure something out when maintenance needs to be done. So, in order to get more money out of this deal, they have to be willing to pay more. I don't know that they think that your 4 years of experience gets them more than it would if you had 2 years but that's the case that you'd have to make. Tell them why you're worth more. That assumes however, that they're open to negotiation at all (you should start with asking that), and that you're willing to walk away if this falls through.
Tess Yes. A real job type job.... Bennies:
Thank you for your thoughts.
Are you kidding me!!! In life, as in business, you dont get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/hasalary.htm and take a class in negotiating www.karrass.com it will change your life. Sure you can try to negotiate. In person or on the phone, not in writing. And, not based on any salary research you've done or on any external factors such as what you think this job "should" pay. You have to negotiate solely on you and what you bring to the company. Why they should pay YOU more than their stated range. What makes you worth more than the other candidates--your experience doing exactly what they need done, your competence level, etc. But, remember you first have to ASK if the pay is negotiable. Don't assume you can just go in at them with your list of why they should pay you more. If they say it's not negotiable, end of story. Stop right there. And, consider that because this job has benefits, it is worth way more than $1k more than you are already making. Almost nobody that I know of is getting the same money as they were years ago, if they've been out of work or have been contracting, and few companies care what you are currently making, unless it's more than they're willing to pay--then they just pass on you. Do not underestimate the value of benefits. My husband is "making" quite a bit less hourly at his current direct job than when he was contracting 3 years ago, but with the fabulous benefit package he has, we are making out the same or better. Unless their offer is negotiable, it really makes no sense to switch jobs for essentially the same salary. The first thing you should do is politely ask if the offer is negotiable. If it's not, stay put and continue your job search. If it is, you can try countering with a range that represents at least a 10% to 15% increase over what you're earning now. Say something like, "I was anticipating an offer in the $X to $Y range." But as Anne Marie stated, your real challenge is to be able to clearly show how the job will be worth that much more to the employer with you in it, based on things like you're experience, training, past job performance, skills, and education. It really doesn't matter what any external source says jobs like this one should pay. It is the employer, after all, who gets to decide what this particular job is worth to his or her organization. Also, do your negotiating via telephone or in person - not by e-mail or in writing. As a matter of fact, don't do any communicating with other than in-person or by phone. Paul W. Barada The Negotiation Expert Actually I've had just as many people say writing IS acceptable. Especially since they emailed the offer, and in this case the job is web-based, so email would be acceptable. And currently working on-site, hourly makes in person, and on phone nearly impossible. Plus, the "you have to show them what makes YOU worthy" vein, I can attach my letter of recommendation from last job where I did the same job at the non-profit. Also, there is some vagueness with, "you know, the usual paid holidays" ..."we don't punch a clock here." That's important to me, because I haven't had a day off since vacation in August. (I know that's hard to believe but when not working I'm either self-training or job hunting). I don't know the tools I will have to work with, and it wasn't made clear to me if I will. I did try to say that proper tools would be an acceptable alternative to money, and I couldn't pin them down to agree. That makes me concerned. Again, why would you tout sending me "to conferences" and "learning so much" and "we'll buy what you tell us to to make the site better," and then not want to spend a little more to get the right person. I'm thinking, "get these concerned resolved" and go with the "right tools instead of money" angle. If I have better tools** at home that at work, that's not going to make me want to drive 64 miles every day (total). Thanks again for all this, I wasn't expecting a job offer in week 3 of job hunting and haven't had a chance to get used to looking-for-work-while-working yet, let alone dealing with an offer all of the sudden. Raph **cable or T1 internet connection, >19" monitor, good computer, decently versioned software (eg, NOT photoshop 7). It's obviously up to you, but the reason I advocate actually talking to these people about your questions and concerns during the negotiation process is so you can hear their tone of voice, the inflection they're using, hear any nuances of meaning that simply cannot be conveyed in writing or by e-mail. I think you need to HEAR how they respond to your questions, plus you having the opportunity to ask questions in real time as they arise. Even what we're doing here and now is a one-way communication, in negotiations communications should be two-way in real time. You can just get a better sense of what's going on by hearing what people have to say by how they're saying it. Furthermore, you can SOUND confident, self-assured, as well as able to think on your feet in terms of your end of the conversation - and that ought to enhance your credibility with them, too. Your call, though. Paul W. Barada The Negotiation Expert Paul, I think your general advice is solid. I just think my my situation dealing with more than one person while at current job (in a high traffic area and right down from the Boss's boss's boss), made e-mail ideal. I constructed a word .doc combining industry standards and a list of 6 benefits for hiring me. Also, there was a running, written account of discussions, and made communication and clarity unavoidable. If you haven't guessed by now, I did get the job, the budget disallowed my my extra request. So we met in the middle and I will get MAX + 2K after 3 mos, till the end of the year where I'll get at least MAX + 5K. Was also able to get post-probation flex time/telecommuting & training in writting. This just happens to be my experience. Your milage my vary. THANKS ALL! Raph
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