Juggling offers/neg salaryHi, In the last few months, I have noticed a increase in job postings in my level/field. In the last 4 months, I have had at least 10 calls from potential employers that saw my resume and contacted me first. Last week, I was contacted by a company that saw my resume on Monster for a Sr. Designer position, when they called to set up an interview, they mentioned my posted salary, $65k... I told them that was the lowest I would take and that I had made $75k/yr, plus bonuses and 100% paid medical at my last position. I had two interviews with them during the second interview they surprised me and offered me the job at $65k. Considering the tax wash, and the fact that I really liked this company, the fact that they treat their employees well - 100% paid med/dental, 401k, education reimbursement, etc--At the time, I was really excited about the position and verbally said I would accept. I know I probably should have said I'd think about it, but they caught me off-guard. Anyway, I was feeling good about the decision and got my offer letter today, all was good, intact, $65k a year - and I was literally just about to formally sign the contract and accept, when I got a call from another interested company who saw my resume on Monster. He also saw the $65/k yr and I explained that, it was my lowest I'd accept- he seemed open to it and I have learned my lesson to negotiate. So, I researched this company and was blown away! I called back and made an appt. with him this Monday, since I only have 3 business days to formally accept the other position. I am bad at talking money, but feel inclined to ask the new company for at least $75k especially since the other company has offered me the position. In our meeting, Monday, I intend to ask direct questions, finding out about the benefits, etc, that would make it clear on which company to choose, in case I am offered this job too. So I can compare the two. I just feel like I have led the first company on since I opened my mouth and said yes, instead of 'I'll think about it". I also didn't try to negotiate after they told me that $75k was too high. I also feel bad because I hate juggling these...I tend to be super honest, and it is hard in this situation, because I realize it is important to hold your cards, in certain situations. I was wondering if I am obligated to the posted salary amount of $65/k - it doesn't seem fair to them, and sort of like bait and switch, because they are expecting one salary when they contact me, and I tell them another. I wish there was a salary range in that field on Monster resume postings, because I have struggled with this and depending upon the company, it's size, what they offer and the expectations, this can be a problem. Yet, I find that if I put the salary too high on the posting, considering all the benefits, etc. that it can seem too high without a chance to explain why you feel that your worth it. I also would love any advice on how to juggle offers and deal with counter offers. Thanks in advance for any help on this!
Since monster does not allow posting of a range (and I agree, this isfrustrating), I think you can negotiate upwards if you are made anoffer. Particularly if your skills & past experience meet therequirements of this job perfectly, or nearly so. If you've alreadytold them that $65k is your minimum, then I doubt they will becaught off guard if you ask for more. You can always say that youranticipated range is $65k to $75k, but that monster.com does not allowfor the posting of a range. It sounds as if the first company was not open to negotiating, but thissecond one might be. Since you already have one offer in hand, youdon't have much to lose by asking to negotiate if you are made anoffer. And though you would feel bad about rescinding youracceptance of the first offer, if this other company comes thru withall you want, and you feel it is a better opportunity, then you have todo what you have to do.... Since you' ve already told Company A that you accept, why are you looking at this other job that you haven' t even interviewed for yet? You' ve got no way to know 1) IF they will make you an offer 2) what that offer might be (more or less than 65K 3) how long it might take before they make an offer (weeks, months). Unless you can afford to walk away from the job that is in the hand and be without another for 6 months, you should focus on the job you have already accepted (written or not, you said you wanted it). It is too late to try and weasle more money out of them so don' t even go there. If the second opportunity is sooo much better that you just can' t let it go, you should let the first employer off the hook, tell them you' ve changed your mind and then cross your fingers that the second one actually comes through. If I wasn't clear, I was not suggesting you ask to re-negotiate with co. #1 if co. #2 makes you an offer. Also, if co. #2 does not get back to you with a firm offer by the time you have to meet your obligation to #1, unless you can afford to be without a job while waiting on #2--but it sounds like you know that already! This board is filled with people who have either accepted, or gone so far as to start, new jobs, but then have had opportunities arise that they simply could not pass up. They have gone on to withdraw their acceptances of the first offer, or resign from their new position, to take the 2nd offer. But, as I'm sure you know, you can't do this again (if indeed you do it this time). And since this company sought you out, rather than vice versa, if I were you I would not feel too guilty about it. You have to do what is best for you in the long run, just as companies do what is best for them.. Just be sure to de-activate your resume with monster so you don't get any more calls!!!! While $10k is a lot more $$, I would not let the dollar signs be the only thing that encourages you to pass up the job you've already accepted. Make sure you'll enjoy the company & the job more--that amount of money is nice, but not if you end up someplace you hate going to work every day! Thank you for your advice, however, I don' t think I was clear, so I will clarify: Questions: "Since you' ve already told Company A that you accept, why are you looking at this other job that you haven' t even interviewed for yet? You' ve got no way to know 1) IF they will make you an offer 2) what that offer might be (more or less than 65K 3) how long it might take before they make an offer (weeks, months)" Answers: Because, I wasn' t looking for another job, literally as I was going over Job#1 offer letter, I got a call from Job#2 - I had a frank phone interview asking hard questions up front. He said is willing to pay over $65k, and also agreed to a few other requests that were important to me that Job#1 is not offering. So, after researching this company via their website and other avenues, (i.e. press/Google, etc.) I saw that this would be an AMAZING company/position to consider and since I had not signed anything, I should explore my options within the time of my grace period of acceptance. So, I called him back, I told him I was on a tight timeline b/c I had just gotten an offer and I wanted to explore this opportunity, we agreed to meet this Monday. I have made clear to him my deadline for acceptance on Job#1 - so if he likes me, and I like them he will have to offer me the position before my deadline with Job#1 - if not, then I will continue with the first offer. "you should focus on the job you have already accepted (written or not, you said you wanted it)" I said that I wanted it verbally, but that was without seeing the offer letter, and whether or not I said ' yes' there was no solid salary amount spoken, they just said $75k was too much and I said $65k was my lowest I' d accept, I might have been unclear on this in my original posting here. AND, yes, I know that it was not smart to verbally accept without knowing this, and have learned a BIG lesson, but like I said, I was caught off-guard, as they brought me in on the pretense that we were doing a simple second interview, ' so the president could meet me and we could answer/ask more questions that had been left out before' , so I was obviously unprepared to answer that. Had I known that they were going to talk "offer' I would have prepared. I answered in the heat of the moment. At the time it was only 10 minutes into the second interview and I had not met the president yet. I was really caught off guard, but remember I really liked what they had to offer without knowing the solid salary and knew that it would at least be $65 - but thought they might be smart and throw me a little bone, knowing my previous salary. The offer letter came with $65k - THAT is when I knew the solid offer. I thought they' d at least meet me in the middle, so why should it seem like I am ' weaseling' for more? The hiring manager has to know that I might come back with a counter offer. She knows I haven' t completely accepted, as in the offer letter, they are still asking me to respond with an answer or questions..if she' s inviting questions, wouldn' t this be understandable? I have brought the salary field section of the resume posting to the attention of Monster.com and the are considering it. It is a simple technical fix, as I do web design and know...hopefully they will change it, I don' t see what harm it will do. I must clarify because in my original post, I think I did not explain this correctly, our talk about what salary they' d offer me when I verbally accepted was vague, in that I said no lower than $65k and they said $75k was too much. So when I accepted verbally they didn' t say what the solid amount would be, I assumed that the offer letter would reflect somewhere in the middle or at least above $65k- it didn' t. I like what you had to say and depending upon the outcome with my meeting with Job#2, I will use it. THANKS. What is the worst they can say, ' no' ? As an employer, I would hope that a potential employee would be smart and at least ' try' to negotiate. Am I wrong in thinking that this might show a little ' moxie' , and that they don' t just settle? Or am I wrong? Here are some things you seem to be missing: 1. Verbally accepting, accepting in writing. Doesn' t matter. You' ve said yes. If you back out of this, or leave right after you start, you will be permanently burning a bridge with this company. 2. Not all employers negotiate. 3. Whenever you negotiate, there are 4 choices: a) they come up to the new number b) they meet you in the middle c) they stand firm d) they move on to someone else You are not the one in charge of which option they pick. There are posts on these boards all the time about employers who move on to someone else. 4. Telling you that if you have questions to contact them is NOT the same as inviting you to negotiate. 5. Trying to negotiate after saying yes is incredibly risky. 6. Trying to negotiate on the basis of Company B will pay me more is incredibly risky. You' re likely to get an answer that says "see ya!" 7. You don' t have an offer from another Company yet. You might not ever get one. You could easily end up with no job at all out of this deal. You' ve been looking for something like this for over a year. It isn' t smart to quibble or burn bridges when you' re in that situation. 8. There' s absolutely no reason to think that Company B will come in any higher than Company A did. It will depend on a lot of factors that are yet to be determined since you' ve only had a initial screening with them. If you' ve made up your mind to pursue the second job, then please, feel free. Your mileage may vary. I still don't think I have been clear enough for you... 1) I am not planning on backing out unless Job#2 has a better offer. AND if I accept and start with Job#1, I WON'T leave right after I start, that is NOT my style and WHY I am trying to take care of this now. I know I have said, 'yes' , but I think a HR manager understands that until that contract is signed, it is not really 'yes', secondly, I am sure that they know that there 'could' be other offers coming in, and if one that is more attractive comes, I would be dumb not to at least explore it - as I am sure at one time or another the HR manager from Job#1 has been on the other side or has been the second offer, and wants to make sure I am happy with my choice, as in turn they will be happy with me as an employee. Hence, why there is such thing as 'negotiation'. 2) I know not all employers negotiate, but how do you find that out? My inclination is, 'you attempt to negotiate'. Knowing that the answer may be 'no.' 3) I am aware of all 4 choices you outlined...that is why you attempt to negotiate..and with their answer, evaluate and move forward. If they move on to someone else, it wasn't meant to be. 4) I am sorry, but inviting questions, is inviting questions... and I know it's also not asking you 'not to negotiate'. Like I said, what's the worse thing that can happen, they say 'no.' If they say see ya for me negotiating, I don't want to work there anyway, that is not a good reason to eliminate someone, for simply trying to negotiate. That would tell me the real investment and value they put on their employees. I would want an employee that would want to try and fight for something they believed in, because that would tell me they'd fight and negotiate for my company as well. AND AGAIN, when I said, 'yes' there was not a solid salary amount agreed upon, just a range. 5) Redundant. The risk is worth it, as I said, if I am not considered simply because I initiated negotiation, something is wrong with them as a company and I don't want to work for them anyway. 6) See point 5. 7) THAT is WHY I arranged to meet with them before my acceptance from Job#1 is due, to confirm, and discuss these things further. 8) In my posting, I told you that I had explored this issue and Job#2 said he'd be willing to pay more than $65k, so I do have reason to believe this...however, so I know for sure.. Again, THAT is WHY I arranged to meet with them before my acceptance from Job#1 is due, to confirm, and discuss these things further. If I don't hear anything worth not accepting Job#1's offer, or feel it is a fit, or they don't want to adhere to a short timeline, and offer me something right away, of course I will accept Job#1. But I will take AnneMarie's advice and find out if they will negotiate, if not, no damage...and if there is damage (read: they rescind the offer because I tried to negotiate...see point 5 again. I appreciate you trying to help, but you seem argumentative and pessimistic, I am not asking for you to candy coat it, but I think there's a way to say advice in a less threatening and aggressive way... case in point: assuming I will just up and leave after I take a job and burn my bridges, when I have made NO reason to make you think that or saying things like... I am not stupid, just looking for some positive advice, please don't be so condescending. Based on what you wrote, it doesn' t sound like you' re employed at the moment. If that' s correct, and I were in your position, I' d have an even more difficult time running the risk of losing what otherwise sounds like great offer in hopes of getting a better one that might, or might not be made. If you' re committed at all to the company who' s offer you accepted, it' s a moral commitment, not a legal one. Signing their offer letter does not make it an "employment contract" and either party can with drawn their offer or acceptance at any time. Depending on how badly you want of need a job, I' d really be tempted to honor my acceptance of the first offer - you know it' s in the bag - rather than run the risk of withdrawing my acceptance and finding out that the potential deal with the other employer isn' t all you were hoping it would be - or if, for some unforeseen reason, no offer is forthcoming. That could leave you with no prospects on the table at all. Thank you for your advice. I wanted to clarify, that I am currently successfully freelancing and so I do have that luxury of an income. However, I am VERY interested in going full-time and have been looking for such a position that would make me want to leave freelancing for awhile. Now I have two opportunities. I see what you are saying about the moral obligation...but I did not see the offer letter and although verbally, I know the HR reprentative knows that the acceptance was prior to the letter...as I stated, I didn' t think they' d offer me my lowest salary req, I thought they' d at least meet me in the middle - since I did not know the full details of the offer, I now don' t see my acceptance as a solid one. Even if there wasn' t another offer, I would probably want address some things that we did not get to discuss and counter the amount they have offered. In this case, how would you address this, I would like to find out if the salary offered is firm, or if they might meet me in the middle, I also want to ask if it is firm, then would they consider 2 weeks extra vacation time. Remember I was making $75k/yr, with full benefits and they are offering $65k/yr. with full benefits. Also, they don' t offer a severance package unless prior arrangements have been made, so I would like to negotiate one equal to 3 mos. salary. I have been laid of in the past and know how valuable this was. There was also no mention of bonuses, so that is one of my questions, too. Can you please let me know the correct way to state these things? Also, isn' t it a reality that if another offer came in, that I should explore it if I have the time, which I do? Literally the day that I received the offer, another opportunity presented itself, I was not looking for it. Also, In job#1' s offer there is a clause that states if the ofer is not accepted by a certain time, it will be rescinded. Why then can' t I have that same luxury of declining within that time, if another offer comes along? Morally had I signed something I would not be even thinking about Job#2, but since I did not have the full details, I see my verbal accpetance as ' yes, I do want to join your company, I am very interested, contingent upon that the offer letter is intact and acceptable to me.' How can the HR manager think that I fully accepted the job, without seeing it outlined on paper? | |
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