ReEntering The Workforce
Hi everyone, My first post here. I'm wanting some feedback concerning my salary negotiations. Here's some really quick info on me. I have about 10 years experience in the oil business in which I rose to a Senior Level Officer position for about a year before we sold the company. Before that I held many different positions in the company. I have a track record of adding efficiencies to processes and was known as a problem solver. However, almost all of this experience was outside my new career path....programming. After we sold the company, I renturned to University to get a 2nd bachelors degree in Computer Science. My first is in Accounting. I have really high grades (3.82 / 4.00 with over 89 hours completed) this time around and I really want to develop websites. I haven't worked since returning to University. I live in Oklahoma but may have to move to Dallas due to the lack of programming opportunities here. I'm beginning my job search and I see starting salaries in my area are in the 45 to 50k range. With my previous work experience, high grades and maturity should I expect to land a first job outside of this range or should I accept one inside this range??? If higher than this range, how much higher?? I've never really had to look for a job since I knew people at my last employer. After my first degree, I worked 1 other place then joined the company of which I was later an officer. Anyways, I would really appreciate any suggestions you all might have. Thanks, J First, what are you basing the $45-50K range on? If it is based on salary sites, you don't have a real picture. Look at the same or similar jobs in the Dallas area that require the same or similar experience (that DOES NOT include your accounting experience). That is the real range you can expect. You are entry-level in this new field and will be paid entry-level salary. Your accounting experience may help, but only if directly related to the sites that you may develop. In reality, you are competing against (a) newly degreed CS graduates, (b) seasoned IT professionals who can not get regular IT work and are looking at the same jobs that you are, (c) high school kids who can do sites in their sleep and (d) others like you who are changing fields. Not a great place to be fighting for a job. In addition to what Chet wrote, I would urge you to figure out what level of income you actual need to at least pay the bills, make ends meet, and to maintain your present standard of living. Figure out what your monthly expenses are over the last several months to come up with a monthly average income you require and below which you cannot go and still make it financially. Take that amount times 12 to come with your minimum annualized income requirements. Call that annualized amount $X. Add about $10K to $X to come up with the top of your anticipated income range. Call it $Y. Now you have a salary range within which you know you have to be. Although you may never have to tell anybody what this "have to be within" range is, YOU need to know what it is! I agree with Chat that you're pretty much looking at entry-level salaries since you're switching careers. The additional experience and training you have should put you ahead of kids just out of school, but only to the extent that what you can bring to the table will increase the value of the jobs for which you're being considered. If the job description doesn't line up with the extras that you can bring to a job, a prospective employer probably isn't going to pay more for skills that the job doesn't require. I would not rely on any salary surveys as a predictor of what an employer may offer you. Unfortunately, you'll just have to wait and see what sort of salary offer is made. Now, here's where your $X to $Y range comes in - if the offer is within the range in which you know you need to be, you may have to accept it to get your foot in this new career door. At least you'll know that you can stay afloat financially with an offer that's somewhere between $X and $Y. Any amount offered higher than $Y will be icing on the cake, so to speak. Make sense? Paul W. Barada The Negotiation Expert
Hi Chet and thanks for the response, I'm basing the $45-50K range on a job posting I saw on this website. It was for an entry level java programmer but they were not specific if it was web based or regular java. Also, I noticed that the national average of starting salaries for CS majors is around $51k and Oklahoma has typically been behind these national averages. Yeah I guess you're right that it's a competitive market but I sure do enjoy this type of work. Guess I may have to settle for lower salary to do the work I enjoy. Anyways...thanks again, J
Hello Mr. Barada and thanks for your response. Thankfully I worked really hard, in my younger days, to pay off debt. I'm virtually 100% debt free and try to keep my monthly expenses very low. I could actually live quite nicely on $40k a year and still have money left over to put in the bank. However, I will do as you suggest becasue I also think it's important to have these numbers in my head. Why do suggest I not rely on any salary survey?? I was under the impression that people consulted these when looking for new jobs. I may not be able to get the top end of the salary range, due to geographical differences, but with very high grades, almost 10 years of business experience and many accomplishments under my belt, isn't it reasonable for me to expect to be close to these survey ranges?? Thanks again, J
I think I'd go back to being a Senior Officer in the Oil bidness. It's bound to pay better than web designing, look at what oil sells for!
NewShopper, Thank for the response but that's not an option. We sold the company 4 years ago otherwise I would have stayed with that job. I realized then that eventhough I was a senior officer, my technical skills were lacking so I had to improve them. I didn't think I wanted to be a programmer until I started programming and found that I absolutely love it! It's actually very fun for me to work out programming assignments and I rarely feel frustrated or discouraged by difficult assignments. Besides I've already spent a boatload of money getting this new degree and my skills are really sharp. I can't wait to develop them further so the prospect of returning to the oil business in almost any capacity isn't appealing to me. Yes I could more than likely get on with another local oil company, we have some large ones here, but I first want to see if I can land a web developer job. If not, then a java or .net programmer position, if not...then I'll start looking at returning to the oil business. Right now, it feels sort of like putting on wet clothes. lol Thanks again, J The general feeling is that most salary surveys tend to run higher than the salaries out there in the "real world." For many surveys, we have no idea of the sample size, how the sample population was selected, how the data was collected, how it was interpreted, or a hundred other factors. For instance, some salary surveys are limited to businesses only above a certain size, which would, by definition, skew the results. I think you can use a salary survey for informational purposes, but that's about all. The whole employment exercise boils down to the value each employer puts on each particular job and how well the a candidate's qualifications for that one job match the requirements of that one job - not what a salary survey says jobs like that one should pay. Make sense? Paul W. Barada The Negotiation Expert You wrote: I'm beginning my job search and I see starting salaries in my area are in the 45 to 50k range. With my previous work experience, high grades and maturity should I expect to land a first job outside of this range or should I accept one inside this range??? If higher than this range, how much higher?? Two questions? Why would you expect a difference in wages due to your age? As a senior in your previous firm, would you EVER have considered offering an older person more than a younger for the same job? No way. What does your previous work experience have to do with your current work? You were a manager, not a developer. Some experience will transfer, but very little. It's not like you're following an upward career path. All your previous work history shows is that you can take charge and that you are reliable (presuming you are). That's a plus, but not enough to move you that much over someone else. Look for something around the median, perhaps slightly higher.
Why would you expect a difference in wages due to your age? As asenior in your previous firm, would you EVER have considered offeringan older person more than a younger for the same job? No way. Well it's not the only factor but age usually equals maturity. Compared to a 22 year old that just graduated, I'm a much more stable worker. Yes in fact that is something I would have considered....even if it's not politically correct to say that. What does your previous work experience have to do with your currentwork? You were a manager, not a developer. Some experience willtransfer, but very little. It's not like you're following an upwardcareer path. The whole reason for this thread was because I wanted perspectives. My previous work experience may not directly translate to my new career path however it does show my previous accomplishments...they are many. That speaks to my abilities to be self directed, accept challenges, lead, complete projects, manage people, etc., Your tone seems to indicate that unless my previous experience is in programming job then it's not important or isn't going to provide any incentive to offer me additional salary. SOmething I disagree with. Look at it this way, if you have someone that has a proven track record applying to your company, wouldn't you be more interested in talking to that person?? Of course you would. Well qualified individuals that have diverse skills have always been in demand. Organizations are not just looking to put warm bodies anywhere they have openings (even if they are qualified). I would be more interested in hiring someone that had my accomplishments than some 23 year old with little to no real world experience....even if I had to pay more to get the superstar (I'm not claiming to be a superstar, there are plenty of more qualified people than me....however, my accomplishments are impressive). All your previous work history shows is that you can take charge andthat you are reliable (presuming you are). That's a plus, but notenough to move you that much over someone else. Look for something around the median, perhaps slightly higher. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. IMO it shows a lot more than just what you describe. | |
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