Salary QuestionI saw an ad that lists a salary that's completely unreasonable. It has a laundry list of requirements, including a BA and AT LEAST 2 years of industry experience. And yet, the salary listed is so low as to be completely unreasonable given the position, the experience required, and the area (NYC). I have most of the qualifications they are asking for, like the job the way it's described in the ad, and also like the company and the work it has produced. However, there is no way I could take this job at the salary they are offering. Even if I wanted to, I would not be able to survive on it--after taxes, it won't even be enough to pay my rent and bills, even though my rent is actually considered quite low for my area and I'm not a crazy spender. The salary they are offering is not just on the low end of the spectrum, it's about 12% lower than the low end, especially since they don't want a kid just out of college, but someone with a few years of experience who would be able to "hit the ground running" (their words, not mine). So, my question is, should I still apply since I kind of like the job itself, and hope that once they see that they can't get the caliber of candidates they want for the salary they are offering, and if they like me enough, they will agree to something more reasonable? I don't want to waste my time and theirs, but there is really no way they will find someone who has all of the required qualifications AND is willing to work for next to nothing, unless there is something wrong with them that's preventing them from finding another job, like a spotty work history, or criminal history, or something along those lines. In the end, they will have to comromise either on the requirements or on the salary. Do you think it's worth my time to apply and, when/if I get the interview, try to negotiate something higher, or should I just let this one go? How likely is it that they will change their mind about salary? I mean, I know that people negotiate salaries, but this one isn't 3-5% off, it's WAY off. Thoughts? Don't waste your time and theirs. They're not going to come up high enough to make you happy. Whether or not they can find someone willing to do it for what they offer is not your problem. If it gets reposted later at a salary you are interested in, then you should go after it.
Tess Things that influence pay ranges: 1. Budget or lack there of (Budget is the king. If I have 48K for the budgeted salary I will generally not be offering your 62K -- especially at a BA and 2 yr exp position) 2. Internal HR pay scales which may or may not be flexible (I once worked for a company that forbid hiring above the mid-point of the salary ranges) 3. The salary market for that sector and/or the size of the company (i.e., a nonprofit pay for Office manager may be lower than the for profit counterpart in the same market or a mom and pop company will rarely pay you market wages) 4. The very local job market for that skill. (In some markets, a strong college nursing program might spawn enouugh new grad nurses to obliterate the need for hiring bonuses that might be standard in a city three hours away). 5. What others in the same company, doing the same thing get paid. Don't underestimate peer pay equity. If I employ 5 graphic artists, they serve as the range for hiring a new graphic artist. Rule of thumb, a BA and 2 yrs experience is pretty low on the org chart so there will not be a dramatic shift in the salary. HOWEVER, having said that: I don't think asking for 12% more than they are offering is unreasonable and I disagree with Tess on this one. They might not go for it because of any of the above five reasons but it is not unacceptable to interview and at negotiations say, I am looking for 15-20% more than your starting salary. As a hiring manager, interviewing overqualified people isn't always a waste of my time. I am always talent scouting when I hire. I would go for it, especially if this is a company where you might be able to develop a relationship with and apply for other positions if this one does not work out.
48K? I wish. They are offering $28K plus health benefits, no dental or vision, and no 401K. For NYC, where it's not unusual to spend $12,000-15,000 a year on rent alone (and that's if you live outside the city), that's just idiotic. I don't even see salaries like that anymore, maybe for some very low level clerical or retail jobs, but that's it. The lower end of the salary range for college grads in this field would be $30K, and that's for someone who has had no experience whatsoever and doesn't have a great GPA. They did emphasize in bold type that they need someone with AT LEAST 2 years of industry experience (I actually have more). I don't know, maybe it is worth my time to give it a try. Perhaps they are advertising such low salary because they want to get a sense of what's out there and how low they can go and still end up with a decent candidate pool. I can see from the conflicting responses that whether or not I have a chance of convincing them to go higher depends on the company and the hiring manager. Who knows, they may have a change of heart once they realize they are not getting the type of candidates they were hoping for. If I do apply and end up getting the interview, I'm definitely going to let them know as soon as they mention salary that I'm not willing to go below a certain amount. If they don't agree, so be it. At least I'll be able to say that I tried, right? Don't do it. It they don't want to pay you a living wage then they are cheapskates. And if they slight you in your paycheck they'll probably disrespect you in other ways as well. Don't try to rationalize them into being any more noble than they really are. I agree, don't even bother with this company. Whatever you start at that is what you have going forward. I made the huge mistake of taking a pretty big pay cut 6 years ago to break into a new industry. Yes, I am grateful for everything that I have learned and I am in the industry today, but I am at the low end of my pay scale for my position simply because of what salary I accepted when I was a 21 year old kid. All of my annual raises were based off of that and my next employer based what they offered me on what I last made. I just had an interview today and they asked me my current salary, so I know they plan to base the pay of someone from what they currently make. Plus, if that is all they are willing to offer up front, I'd have to wonder what my raises (if any) will look like, and I doubt they'd give bonuses. It sounds like they are being very cheap, and it may be because they just don't have it, but someone will be willing to work for it. You are not and you will not be happy. I have seen a lot of companies these days expecting people to have degrees and 3 years of experience for entry level jobs and wanting to pay low salaries. I guess they find people for these jobs, especially with more and more people living at home with the parents after college, but it isn't for me. I don't even have a degree and I'd laugh at $28k. For some reason, many companies in NYC simply do not offer salaries that have any relation to the reality of the COL there... We went thru this when we were looking to relocate. He got several calls from the NYC area, but the wages they were offering were ludicrous. He'd get calls on jobs he was a perfect match for, including the requirement of several years of experience, then he'd get salary numbers of high $30s, mid $40s, etc.--which is what he could make in areas with much lower COLs. He did interview in person at one firm, as it seemed they were willing to ante up the $$. They LOVED him, but in the end, hired someone with much less experience so they didn't have to pay what they considered a "high" salary (DH was asking for $50k, to $55k which even then was pretty low in order to actually live anywhere near NYC. And I have heard similar tales, on this board and from others. So, what you're experiencing doesn't seem unusual (it is very common today overall--not just in NYC--that firms want stellar talent at crater-level wages). I doubt you will get them to up that salary by enough to make it worth it. And, as I believe someone else alluded to, why would you even want to work for such a cheapskate company? Hell, you could get $28k in the area I live in, and that COL is about half of NYC's.... You're right. It's getting ridiculous in this area. What makes this whole thing so weird is that this company is not known to be a cheapskate employer, they actually have an ok reputation. Maybe this is a sign that things have taken a turn for the worse there and they are not doing well financially, in which case it would be a bad idea to start working there now. I just don't know anymore. How can employers not understand that when they are being cheap it actually ends up costing them more in turnover, and mistakes made by inexperienced employees doing jobs that require the skill level they don't have? All they can get when they refuse to offer reasonable salary is candidates willing to settle. Interesting thing about candidates willing to settle--they don't view such jobs as long term and leave as soon as they get a better offer, or as soon as the company is done training them so they have experience to apply to a better company. In Dec '06, I interviewed for a position. Both interviewers loved me, but I ended up refusing the offer because the company would not budge on salary. Felt bad about it too because the interviewers seemed like lovely people and I believe that they simply weren't allowed to go any higher. At the end of January, the position was reposted. Imagine my surprise, whoever they hired found something better and left! Then, it was reposted again in March. Who could've imagined?! And they were still offering that ridiculous salary I turned down. Way to learn from your mistakes! I'm sure they are going to save a ton of money on that position, with the turn over, and the training, and the extra hours of overtime they have to pay the remaining employees to do that job while they look for and then train yet another candidate for the 8th time in the same year. Funny thing is, the interviewers told me that the reason the position was created was because there was so much work, it was cheaper to add another position than to keep paying overtime. I'm guessing with so much OT, the other employees were burning out too, which in itself leads to high turn over. I wonder how much they've saved so far. Well, good luck to them and to other employers with similar views! A friend of mine actually suggested that when the salary is listed in the ad and it's lower than what I'd be willing to accept, but I still like the job, it might be a good idea to apply and include my salary requirements, regardless of whether they ask for them or not. If they are dead set against negotiating, they just won't call. If they like what they see on paper and are open to discussion, especially if they realize that they are not getting the kind of resumes they were expecting for that low salary, they may be willing to talk. I guess it's worth a try, and noone's time will be wasted needlessly. Sometimes employers "go cheap" with a purpose and it probably isn't cost cutting. If they're going to cost cut, they'll hire a contractor and save benefits over the next 5 years. One reason to go cheap is because the job is an entry-level portal to this company. They know that the person in that position will only stay in that role a year or two (at the most) and they are giving them a doorway to their next spot in the company. Sometimes it is the "hire them young and train them the way you want them" thinking. In the last job I hired for, I would have either gone with someone who could hit the ground running or something I could totally train from scratch and not a lot of middle. Someone more experienced also comes with bad habits and things that are not done the company's way (right or wrong). Sometimes it is an equity issue across the organization. Many companies have "job families" and this job falls into one with similar jobs in other parts of the company. The pay band for that group of jobs is set and even though this particular job might seem to be unique, at its core it is similar enough to fall in with the others. Tess Respond to the ad, but state in the cover letter that you would be interested if the salary were 10K higher. If they're interested, you're interested. If not ,you don't waste your time. | |
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