Not sure how to address upcoming issueI was recently employed at a local university. The job was union and during the probationary period you have almost no rights. Pretty much the hiring manager can decide he doesn't like the shoes you wore that day and can let you go without explanation. It's not exactly being fired, but rather a "you're just not a good fit" kind of deal. I was doing AWESOME in this job, praised to the high heavens; but bumped heads with the Chair of the department - or the hiring manager. Unfortunately this normally oblivious manager was informed of his right to just let me go. So he did. I'm not worried about my references. After I left there was a bit of a stink from those managers I actually did work for and most of them were FURIOUS. They've mostly told me that if I want a reference, or anything else within their power, I've got it. But. Although I *technically* wasn't fired, (I just "wasn't a good fit"), it sure feels like I was. And I just don't know what to tell hiring managers. HELP!!!! Things you don't want to hear: 1. Technically, yes, you were fired. That's the box you should check on the form and that's what you should say if asked. You can then explain that you were in the probationary period and it just was not a good fit. 2. It is unwise to "bump heads" with your boss, oblivious or not, otherwise doing a good job or not. Part of everyone's job is to get along with others. This is an opportunity for a good learning experience for you if you see it for what it is. 3. It is great when other co-workers like you, but it is most important that your boss like you. Hiring managers most often want to hear from your actual boss, so while having these other references is good, cultivating a good reference from your boss for the future is best.
Tess Unfortunately, any way you slice it, you are going to be viewed as having been fired. The upside of this is that you have great references. When the interviewer asks for your references or if he/she can contact your previous employer, go ahead and say yes. Don't give the interviewer the name and phone number of the manager who ultimtely let you go, though. Give out the names of the managers you worked DIRECTLY for, who were so furious that you were so unceremoniously let go and who are willing to provide your references. Technically, the only thing that previous employers are supposed to say are your start and end dates and if they would hire you back or not. Realistically, we all know they say more which is why making sure that the appropriate people say the right things are important. If, and undoubtedly when, the interviewer asks why you left your previous employer, don't go into a big speil about the union and the hiring manager, who you never worked directly for, his head being in the clouds and his ultimate letting you go ostensibly because someone told him that he could do it for no reason. Say something to the effect that you were the only one in the department who was not union protected since you were still on probation and so you were let go. Granted this is not much of an answer, but there is a possiblity that, since you were such an excellent employee and won awards, etal. the interviewer may conclude that your department downsized. By the time references are actually checked, the decision may have already been made and the check is just formality.
Yep. Real growing point. And while the man who let me go was my hiring manager, he saw me all of 5 minutes a day. He did not give me direction in the workplace except on a general level. He did not assign me work. The person who actually "supervised" me will give me a good reference. So will the other eight people who acted as my supervisor. Sorry. It's still a dirty taste in my mouth. I'm really sorry you're bent out of shape about this but you brought it on yourself. It isn't your place to tell your boss off, ESPECIALLY when you're on probation and especially when you've only been there a blink. Add to that the fact that you did only see this guy 5 minutes a day, I have to wonder why you couldn't keep your mouth shut during that 5 minute period. Don't repeat this in your next job and don't let your attitude about it show in an interview.
Tess Fact is, you were fired. You didn't quit, but rather were terminated. But that's not such a big deal, because people get fired at one time or another. The most important thing is the reason. You weren't fired for doing poor work, but rather not getting along with the boss (Chair). Personality clashes happen, and so I would level with employers. No matter how hard we try to get along with everyone, we're not going to succeed. There's always somebody who doesn't particularly "click," and so that just goes with the territory. You've got good references from others, so it's not going to hurt. I'm bent out of shape about how it happened, not necessarily that it happened. I didn't mouth off at the Chair. I stood up for myself in a bad situation and the Chair didn't side with me. Simple as that. In the end I have to say that I'd rather stand up for myself in a situation and get fired than be walked on and still be there. I loved my job and 99.99% of the people I worked with. Honestly? I hate to admit it to even myself, but even during the meeting with the HR director where they let me go I felt like a huge weight had been lifted off of my shoulders. I loved my job but hated the situation I had been put in. I'm sorry if I sound as if I am coming off as stupid and snotty. I'm venting here in a manner I never would anywhere else. I have learned a lot from this experience. Most definitely. Thanks for all of the comments. fatewine In my last job search, I was mid/sr management and had resigned from a perfectly sensical position. Quite frankly it was a shadow even though I was not "technically" fired : ) The bottom line was I was fired and any company worth working for knew it. This fact did keep me from getting 1 or 2 jobs but I overcame it by addressing it head on. But I have said it over and over, the formula for being fired when you interview for new jobs are simple: 1 Own your mistake, 2 Learn from it 3 assure me you have done something keep it from ever happening again. Doesn't sound like you own anything and that is your first mistake. You need something like this... "Unfortunately, I got off to a bad start with one of the managers and never recovered from it. So I was let go as 'not a good fit ' at the end of my probationary period. While my technical skills are high, in retrospect, I did not handle interpersonal relationships in the worksite well at all. Since then, I attended a workshop on interpersonal relationships... spent 3 sessions with a personal coach.... [whatever you really did] and now recognize dynamics of interpersonal relations. If I were to do it over, I would have worked harder at listening to other ideas and perspectives rather than being quick to judge them, I would have tried to focus more concretely on performance expectations, and I would have worked harder to integrate my professional self into the underlying culture of the agency. Also, "technically," references matter despite the propogated myth that "previous employers are supposed to say are your start and end dates" references can and will give much more information than name, rank and serial number. In fact, I would never hire anyone unless I had at least one manager who would verify knowledge, skills and experience of you. How badly being fired will hurt you depends on the strength of the references who directly supervised you and your overall work history. Sounds like you have decent references but don't minimize and rationalize your being fired. It matters and until to come fact to face with it you can't use it positively in your career.
"In the end I have to say that I'd rather stand up for myself in a situation and get fired than be walked on and still be there." There are certainly times when I would agree with you, however I think you need to look at he big picture, the "down-the-road" view when it comes to these types of things. Getting into a heated argument or continually disagreeing with a supervisor isn't the way to advance in a career. AT some point, you come to the realization that either the ethics, philosophy or work habits of your peers or supervisors does not match yours and you start a job search. The key is to leave on your terms. Yes, in your situation you may leave with your head held high, but that doesn't get you into another job. | |
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