Question about proof of employmentQuick question. I just had a first interview. It went well and I have a 2nd interview this coming Friday. However, the HR rep has informed me that I should be ready to provide my W2 forms for the past 5 years because should the hiring manager decide to hire me, I will have to provide the forms within the next couple of days. She stated that the reason she was telling me this now was because it was extremely important to them that the position be filled immediately, so she was just letting all of the candidates know this in advance so they have time to get the paperwork together and readily available when/if they get the call. My question is, is this normal? I have been to a lot of interviews in the 6 months I' ve been job searching and received 3 offers, and I have never been asked for my W2 forms. I have no problem providing them, except for one position 2 years ago that was actually a long term freelance position, in which case I guess a letter from the former company owner will have to do (the company has since closed). However, I was wondering if it' s out of the ordinary for companies to ask for W2' s, except for sales positions where the size of one' s commission checks demonstrates their ability as a sales person. Has anyone else encountered this? What if an applicant has held a freelance/contract job? I' m assuming a letter from the company is enough in that case... It is becoming very common. I see posts about this pretty much every week on these boards. Since so many people lie about former employers, former salary, etc. and it is harder and harder to get companies to verify information, it is easier for an employer to make you provide the proof. 5 years is the longest I' ve heard of. Usually, they just ask for current W2 but hey, they can set their own rules. You don' t seem to have any problem providing it. That' s up to you. If you don' t provide it, you' re obviously out of the running. I would also assume that a letter would be fine for the one that is out of business. never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a really bad hr process and would cause me to question the entire culture of the organization I think 5 years is how far back they go if you are audited, so you are supposed to keep all of the important financial papers, including W2' s for at least that time. I guess in this sense, I can see why they would think it reasonable to expect you to have these documents, as well as why they would want to give you a heads up in advance to give you enough time to dig them up. However, while they may have their reasons, this is an extremely odd request. I can understand about wanting to be careful not to fall for people' s lies, but come on, this is crossing the line. It' s up to you to decide whether or not you want to subject yourself to such scrutiny, but you should know that this is not normal. I' m not saying they are doing something illegal, but it sounds like the atmosphere at that company is one of distrust and suspicion. I for one would not want to work in such an environment. Look at their choices: they can risk hiring someone who lied about their experience, and so what? If it turns out that this person can do the job, they' ve lost nothing. If, however, they fail miserably, they can always fire them then, and yes, this means additional expenses, but a) this can happen even if the applicant was 100% honest; and b) it' s the interviewers' job not to let incompetent people through, and if they failed to recognize lack of necessary skills in an applicant, they didn' t do their job too well. Their other choice is to subject applicants to disrespectful treatment that invades their privacy and during which they are basically presumed guilty until proven innocent. I don' t know your financial situation or how badly you need the job (I' m assuming you are not desperate since you passed on 3 offers). However, unless you absolutely need a job NOW, or this company, for whatever reason, is your dream company to work for and you know FOR A FACT that their hr procedures are not reflective of the overall company culture (it does happen sometimes that companies that are a nightmare to interview for and that treat applicants like cr@p turn out to be wonderful places to work at once you are hired), I would recommend that you consider all the facts carefully. Do some research, see what you can find out about this particular company prior to committing. Just my 2¢. While it is becoming more prevalent, I think five years is a bit much. if you did freelance work, you should have received a 1099 if you earned more than $600 from any one company. With today's technology it seems stupid to me that an employer would rely on W2's. I can print W2's from my version of TurboTax so what would stop me from printing a W2 to match a salary that I want? It occurs to me that the company may be firing a warning shot and letting applicants know that they will check salary to force people to either be honest or drop out of consideration if they have already lied about their salary. For the average person asking for W-2s is not necessary. I have done contract work where the pay has been $11 to 25 per hour for the same type job. Insist that they pay according to experience and education. Unless you are out of work., then its whatever the market will bear. Sometimes I can't put the $25 down or they would not consider me. Never the $11, because they would low ball me for sure. It is really none of their business what you made on the last jobs. Only on current wage, if the employer wants to bid higher. Remember first one mentions salary or pay looses, unless they let you know the range before interviewing. The problem these days companies want to get you a cheap as possible, that don't make any sense to do it, if is not competitive with other similar companies. I agree with those here who say that your salary is none of the employer' s business and that your pay should be based on experience and qualifications. I mean, according to some employers, if someone took a below-market salary to pay the bills while they searched for the "dream job", that means they do not deserve to make much more than that and the salary at their next job should be only slightly higher. Does this make sense to anyone? Since they insist on going back 5 years, perhaps they are looking for proof of having actually worked at the places you claim you worked, not just salary. Perhaps they are trying to ensure themselves against real people at real companies giving fake references. Please. Anyone with an entry-level knowledge of design programs can manufacture something that looks like a carbon copy of the required documentation. Like another poster mentioned, it' s not that difficult to doctor a form to reflect the amount you want it to reflect. Need a letter on company stationery? Get their logo from the web site, design your own stationery, and print it out on nice paper. Chances that the hr person actually knows what a given company' s stationery looks like are slim to none. This is all such a waste of time. Employers should just accept that, no matter what they do, THERE IS A CHANCE THAT AN APPLICANT WILL LIE AND NOT GET CAUGHT. Employers can run credit reports. They can talk to past employers who may or may not be willing to discuss the applicant' s salary history, reason for leaving, or where the applicant worked before/after they worked at XYZ company. They can talk to references, who may or may not be telling the truth. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to good old fashioned psychology and being a good judge of character, as well as to knowing what questions to ask and what tests to run to establish skill level and confirm qualifications. That' s why it seems so strange to me that companies trust people to conduct interviews who have never been properly trained in how to do that. It' s almost like employers believe that all the background screening and aptitude testing that has now become available will somehow compensate for the ineptness of the actual people conducting the interviews. Therefore, there is no need to pay experienced HR people when it' s cheaper to simply hire a bumbling college grad as HR recruiter and let the background screening companies do their thing. I' ve worked in a position that put me in close contact with background screening companies, and things get overlooked ALL THE TIME, often knowingly. For example, if a client company' s policy as communicated to the background screening vendor requires that they only check criminal history going back 5 years, and the candidate for a store management position was arrested for embezzlement 7 years ago, the background screening company will not tell the client that. His background check will come back clear. If someone has signed a release form agreeing to a criminal history check going back 5 years, and it becomes known that the employer was aware of and based their hiring decision on information that falls outside of these parameters, that' s grounds for a law suit. Therefore, the vendor' s hands are tied. A few years ago, one of our candidates turned out to have had a rape and attempted murder conviction that fell slightly outside of the search parameters, and the only reason we found out was because the employee at the vendor company that ran crime checks for us told that to my manager "off the record". Had she not been my manager' s close personal friend, I doubt she would' ve risked her job, and the psycho would have ended up in our office. I' m not saying it' s not important to use the available means of checking into someone' s past to weed out the obvious bad choices. The problem is that employers seem to rely more and more on paperwork, background screening, various tests and personality profiles varying in the degree of ridiculousness, and less on training their hiring managers and recruiting staff on how to properly interview candidates and ask truly useful and insightful questions. Run the checks, but don' t rely on them at the exclusion of the human element. When employers go overboard with proofs and verifications as in this case, all they are doing is needlessly risking losing good candidates who may not be willing to comply with the unreasonable demands out of principle. All for an additional precautionary measure of questionable effectiveness. How silly. And what if they do end up paying someone 10K more based on them lying about their salary history? They obviously thought this person' s expertise was worth that much, or they wouldn' t have agreed to pay them this salary. So what' s the problem? Guys, I know this all seems unreasonable and I may even agree, but lots and lots of companies do 5 or even 10 year background checks. This could be their poor man' s way of doing so. And it may quickly weed down their large candidate pool at the same time. You and I may think it is unreasonable, but if they think they can float a decent candidate to the top of the pool this way, that' s their process and it seems to be working for them. If they get to the point where they can' t get qualified candidates because this is so restrictive, they' ll consider something different. Unfortunately, like it or not, if you want the job you have to work within the employer' s process. If you have other opportunities or just don' t want to do it, you don' t have to, but you take yourself out of the running. The same goes for credit checks, salary history, driving record, GPA and school transcripts and lots of other things. None of them are illegal and are fair game for employers to ask about or demand proof of. I' m not disagreeing with you. I wasn' t saying that employers should not do background checks, aptitude tests, etc. It' s just that some companies are taking this too far. I mean, checking W2' s going as far back as 5 years? It' s just extreme, that' s all. And do you remember that thread on the old board about handwriting analysis as a screening procedure? Come on. I am waiting for companies to start employing psychics to screen candidates. I wasn' t saying that these practices should be outlawed, just venting about the ridiculousness of it all. I do think it would be nice if companies would list their pre-employment screening procedures in the job ads or somewhere on their web site. Some companies do it, but most don' t. If all companies that advertise open positions did this, candidates would be able to decide in advance whether or not they wanted to apply. This way, noone' s time would be wasted needlessly and there would be less posts here about candidates going on an interview, or even passing a number of interviews, only to find out that in order to be considered they have to concent to procedure(s) with which they do not want to comply. A very avoidable waste of time, if you ask me. Oh well... Again, this conversation underscores some themes that continue to recur on this list. 1. Companies do the most outlandish things to screen, typically as the result of wasting time and money paying for advice from the nonsensical HR consultant industry. 2. Company research is important. The more outlandish the HR hoops, the more you need to explore the underlying culture of the organization to figure out if it is really a place where you want to work. 3. All job hunters need to think real hard about their tolerance for "privacy invasion" before job hunting and draw those boundaries. Are you willing to pee in a cup for a job?, cough up 5 yrs worth of W-2' s? Let an agency talk to your neighbors about you (i.e., for higher level government jobs)? Give a copy of your most recent cholesterol panel; body mass index and stroke risk screen? Drawing the lines in the sand intentionally saves you the angst once your into the process. 4. These boards are good places to whine about job hunting experiences because we share and learn in the process. | |
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