Have you noticed this phenomenon
In software companies, it is not unusual for there to be a lot of male workers and few female workers. I have seen instances where many of the male workers will go flirt with the sole female worker. It doesn't matter if the male workers already have SOs, or if the female worker already has an SO. These male workers don't seem to be interested in chatting with anyone except for the female worker. And the female worker doesn't mind the attention. They'll be laughing it up and making jokes, teasing each other, and saying things that cause the female to shout out "YOU'RE SO BAD!!!" Of course, it makes it almost impossible to concentrate with all the racket going on.
IT_dc, thanks for the info. I think men and women can find other people than their partner attractive and enjoy flirting. In the workplace, there can be situations where a (young) woman is a 'token representative' (the only person differing from the group norm), which is a vulnerable position to work in every day. When management doesn't manage teams and some guys hit on her, she can either 1) go along and play the office game like everybody has to deal with it in various forms - society's role expectations also play a part - or 2) constantly has to give some sort of 'signal' (??) that she is there to work but doesn't want to be unsocial (??). What would be tolerated, also on a frequent basis and who would back her up? In these situations there can be various ways of discrimination.
A poster in another thread ('too much socializing at work') experienced such dynamic and leaves for another, though less interesting job for this reason. So much for her professional aspirations. To be regarded as a professional and 'one of the guys' in these situations, someone in authority has to stimulate that notion right from the start. With another poster, it helped to consolidate and advance her technical career through solid and overt 'back up' and career mentoring by her latest boss / employer, though also by adopting some specific behavior of the dominant (masculin) culture throughout the years.
I have always socialized when the time was appropriate with males and females alike but then again my office dynamics at my company during the 90s were such that a group of us all socialized outside of the office all the time and it carried over somewhat to work. Having a laugh once in awhile at work is good. What I cant stand is the "mandatory" type of socializing - the birthdays (uh, which one is he that I am signing this card for?) or the holidays - those are the worst. Leave me alone at Xmas - I dont want to go to the dinners, I dont want to be a part of the gift exchange or any of the silly games - I will readily admit that my lack of enthusiasm for Xmas especially is due to losing my dad close to the holiday but when I say no I mean NO so just shut up, accept it and respect my wishes. The harder you try and cajole me into it and tell me that I HAVE to participate it when I dig my heels in harder and longer and you will not get anywhere with me. Same goes with baby showers and anniversaries. I have my own bills and family to spend money on for special occasions without the 20 envelopes that get passed around per month.
Hi Uwishtoo,
I so agree, socializing with colleagues is nice, though I work to develop myselfprofessionally / personally and not to partake in popularity contests. In the workplace, there are many factors different from a free situation that influence group dynamics. I also think gender bias still is hard to crack, which prevents women's career advancement. I hope the imbalance will completely vanish soon.
Gender roles are projected on women (on men as well, though because of the imbalance it works more negative for women), f.e. when a woman works as admin or receptionist she is accepted as 'feminine' (and also receives condescending and/or sexist attitudes as I have witnessed and read on this board as well btw) but when she is a manager she suddenly must have 'masculin features' (behavior prescribed by our society for men). When she has or adopts them, she is socially not accepted and regarded as 'unfeminine'. When she is a manager and behaves 'feminine' (behavior prescribed by our society for women), she is regarded as 'not tough'.
Hi Uwishtoo,
I so agree, socializing with colleagues is nice, though I work to develop myselfprofessionally / personally and not to partake in popularity contests. In the workplace, there are many factors different from a free situation that influence group dynamics. I also think gender bias still is hard to crack, which prevents women's career advancement. I hope the imbalance will completely vanish soon.
Gender roles are projected on women (on men as well, though because of the imbalance it works more negative for women), f.e. when a woman works as admin or receptionist she is accepted as 'feminine' (and also receives condescending and/or sexist attitudes as I have witnessed and read on this board as well btw) but when she is a manager she suddenly must have 'masculin features' (behavior prescribed by our society for men). When she has or adopts them, she is socially not accepted and regarded as 'unfeminine'. When she is a manager and behaves 'feminine' (behavior prescribed by our society for women), she is regarded as 'not tough'.
I always told people that I didnt have to give them a reason for the way I feel about certain things - they were my feelings and were private and they just needed to respect it all. One year really ticked me off at Xmas when a co worker contacted my sister in another city by email and told HER of my anti social attitude towards Xmas and went behind my back to get a baby picture of me for a stupid departmental game. My sister even told the gal that she was asking for trouble and that I felt the way I felt and the family had accepted it. Oh well. I jsut now refuse to give my birthdate when I start a new job.
Uwishtoo,
Horrible when they intrude your private life. I also refuse to explain myself any further than I choose to. With my former job, the new manager wanted 'the guys' (his newly created clique of cronies) to have a drink twice a month somewhere. (I was the only female). They said 'okay sure' but luckily no action followed from it. I would sure have felt pressured to go along, though I would have kept to once in two months or so.
Uwishtoo,
Horrible when they intrude your private life. I also refuse to explain myself any further than I choose to. With my former job, the new manager wanted 'the guys' (his newly created clique of cronies) to have a drink twice a month somewhere. (I was the only female). They said 'okay sure' but luckily no action followed from it. I would sure have felt pressured to go along, though I would have kept to once in two months or so.
----
Problematic that I can't edit a lot of my messages. Wanted to be more precise with (automatic) role expectations:
Genderroles are projected on women (on men as well, though because of theimbalance it works more negative for women), f.e. when a woman works asadmin or receptionist she is accepted as 'feminine' (and also receivescondescending and/or sexist attitudes as I have witnessed and read onthis board as well btw) but when she is a manager she suddenly musthave 'masculin features' (behavior prescribed by our society for men).
When she has or adopts 'masculin behavior', she is regarded as'unfeminine' though 'tough'. She has to maintain this narrowlyprescribed role forher authority to be accepted instead of being more relaxed and social,while male managers can be authoritarian as well as social (a broaderrange of behavioral action, because their authority is automaticallyassumed). This creates a lot of stress for femalemanagers as has been researched. When she is a manager and behaves'feminine' or 'social' (behaviors prescribed by our society for women),she isregarded as 'not tough' or 'incompetent' and her authority is notreadily accepted. This applies to male as well as female dominatedenvironments (society standards that influence people's attitudes in the workplace).
Problematic that I can't edit a lot of my messages. Wanted to be more precise with (automatic) role expectations:
Genderroles are projected on women (on men as well, though because of theimbalance it works more negative for women), f.e. when a woman works asadmin or receptionist she is accepted as 'feminine' (and also receivescondescending and/or sexist attitudes as I have witnessed and read onthis board as well btw) but when she is a manager she suddenly musthave 'masculin features' (behavior prescribed by our society for men).
When she has or adopts 'masculin behavior', she is regarded as'unfeminine' though 'tough'. She has to maintain this narrowlyprescribed role forher authority to be accepted instead of being more relaxed and social,while male managers can be authoritarian as well as social (a broaderrange of behavioral action, because their authority is automaticallyassumed). This creates a lot of stress for femalemanagers as has been researched. When she is a manager and behaves'feminine' or 'social' (behaviors prescribed by our society for women),she isregarded as 'not tough' or 'incompetent' and her authority is notreadily accepted. This applies to male as well as female dominatedenvironments (society standards that influence people's attitudes in the workplace).
Same old argument - a man states a strong presence and he is powerful, a woman does and shes a bi*** - well then call me a bi*** - lol
LOL
! Finally someone who doesn't evade the issue. Some people on these boards are silent about sex discrimination or deny it even when they discriminate 'live'.
LOL
ah heck no - why deny what truly exists ? I am 5'4" and 135 pounds - not a tiny woman but now gargantuan either and i have ben told many times that i exude confidence - something i dont see myself but ... - and also that i have a prescence - heck one woman once told me the first time she saw me (in a dress and 4 inch heels no less) that the first thought that came to her mind was "was she born a woman ?" lol - I asked her why and she said that it was because i was so tall and I said uh I am oly 5'4" - but i guess since i wear 4 inch heels all the time that makes a differnce - then again 5'8" isnt all that huge either - just must be something about the way I carry myself