Career Tips

Conspriracy of Silence


I work with a couple of young ladies who live in one of the worst and most dangerous neighborhoods in South Florida which is Riviera Beach.  The incidence of crime is very high which includes robbery, home invasions and drive-by shootings.

A few nights ago I was watching a report on one of the new shows about a cold case.  A young boy was shot fatally about a year ago and they have not found the killer.  It appears that nobody wants to help the police find the person or persons responsible for this crime.

I asked the women why people do not want to talk.  They said that people in the community are afraid to help the police and even if they know who committed a crime, they prefer to remain silent when questioned.  They do not want serious repercussions, and we all know that even killers who are locked up in prison have a long reach and can arrange to have the witnesses or accusers harmed by their criminal friends who are on the outside.  Both of my co-workers said that everyone prefers to mind her own business regardless of the circumstances.  It's too dangerous and risky to talk!

Do some of you agree with these women?  Can some of you see several sides of this issue?  What do you think you would do if you knew who killed one of your neighbors?  Would you remain silent?  Would you help the police regardless of the very real risks to you and your family?

 

 

Bunzo

As horrific as it is; I see both sides. 

I will reserve additional comments for the time being.

No, I would not stay silent, fire, famine, tsunami, earthquake, nor wild horses could keep me from "dropping a dime" on the thug.  If necessary, I would go into witness protection for the opportunity to testify against him.  I have no family, and would willingly risk my life to take one more piece of scum off of the street.  If nothing else, I would have that contribution to society as my legacy on this earth.

I also sleep with a loaded handgun and shotgun next to me.

On the streets it's pretty common knowledge that you keep quiet or else.

Good responses so far!

I do not think we can judge other people until we have walked a mile in their shoes.  My co-worker and supervisor who I'm talking about have lived this "challenging" life since they have been born.  They are natives of Florida and have lived in the general area all their lives.

Crime is commonplace for them and their neighbors.  They are accustomed to hearing the sounds of gun fire and the sirens - especially on weekends and late at night.  They probably know plenty of victims and criminals or they know of them.  They have probably been questioned, themselves, by detectives.  They know what is best for them and their families.  They would rather be alive for themselves and their families than be dead heroes.  I do not blame them!

If I was in a similar situation where I know who killed someone or who robbed or invaded someone's home or had knowledge about some other crime, I honestly do not know what I would do.  I cannot say for sure one way or the other until I am in a given situation and this applies to other circumstances as well.

As far as witness protection programs go, I know nothing about them.  Are they available to anyone who needs this protection?  Do they work?  Are they guarantees of safety and longevity?  Also - what about the police departments for the most part?  How can anyone be sure he can trust the police?  There are probably a fair amount of "dirty cops" in any given police department anywhere in our country!  I know for a fact that the Riviera Police Department has had a lot of very serious problems!

My co-worker who was just 21 this week told me "what goes around comes around."  She meant, of course, that if these criminals did the deed they will get caught eventually despite the fact that the police department received no assistance from people in the community.  She is naive in this regard!  I used to believe in that statement too, but now I  think differently.  We are all aware of the fact that there are probably thousands of killers, rapists, kidnappers, and robbers all over the world who have never gotten caught and punished and probably will never lose their freedom.  "What goes around comes around" has never worked for them!

What about the families of victims of crime?  People say that must know who killed their loved ones!  That makes sense to me, but does it provide real closure?  In fact - some people say closure is overrated and does not exist.  I believe I would want to see the criminal who brutalized my loved one punished, but again how do I really know what I would do or how I would feel unless I was faced with such a tragedy?

I would like to read more responses - pro and con!

 

 

Bunzo

So here is my second and third comment;

  1. When I was carjacked and shot I jumped from the car.  It was a neighborhood similar to the one that you described, although I suspect a bit more rural.  I was able to make it to the front porch of a home where I proceeded to bang on the door.  It was about 10:30 pm by this time.  The couple who owned the home were older, probably in their late 60's.  They initially begged me to leave their front porch and refused to call help for me.  They didn't want to get involved.  I wouldn't / couldn't make it any further; I was bleeding out.  Finally the woman gave me a towel and realizing that I wasn't going anywhere called 911, against her husbands wishes.  I have always understood and forgiven their reluctance.
  2. On the flip side.  If I were alone, no children in the home (which I am now) I would tell in a red hot instant.  I would shout anything and everything I knew from the roof tops.  I would actively work to remove, especially violent criminals from my streets and neighborhoods.  This is the only way in which our future generations will be safe, the only way in which we take back our communities.  I would not however, do this if I still had children in the home.  I would not put them at risk.

So there are my second and third comments.  Might have more later, we'll see.

Bunzo,

Like the other posters, if I had dependents at home and lived in the area I would think twice about being a witness or an informant. If I was alone, then the risk is not so great. There is always the likelihood that the assailant knows who the witness was, anyway and may take action no matter what.

I lean towards telling the police what I witnessed and taking the risk to myself only. I am not sure I could take that risk if I had kids to care for and knew that they would be at risk. It is too tough to live with the fear that your child or relative may be used for retaliation.

The result is that criminals can go on murdering and terrorizing at will and no one can protect you. That is the case in many areas in this country. Since protecting a witness is almost impossible for smaller cities and towns, the witness would seem to have no good options.

In my locale, the problems are about dope and gangs and our murder rate is noteworthy. Innocent people get killed and still, no one talks. No matter how bad it is, everyone is afraid and so the killers go on doing whatever they please. It is a no-win for everyone and has contributed to the flight from the area for some time.

 

 

Your comments, D&C, closely match Martin's opinion.

I asked him what he would do and he said if there were dependants in the household - he would keep quiet and play dumb; however, if he was alone, he would tell all.

He says he is not afraid of anyone.  He has a loaded pistol right underneath his boxer shorts in the drawer and an  made to order oak gun cabinet that is always locked which sits in our living room with an impressive collection of loaded rifles. Before I met him in 1985, he was a gun dealer.

 

 

Bunzo

I also abide by the credo that one should not judge others unless they have walked in the same shoes. Have posted that philosophy on these boards--except I say moccasins. Today it would be flip flops.

I am not making a judgment about others when I say that I would not hesitate to rat the scumbag out to the police that would be my choice. I understand fear.   It consumes me.

Like LVal, I was a crime victim.   In my case my spouse was my attacker.  He pinned me to my bed and stabbed me with a butcher knife.   Upon releasing his weight/grip on me, he began rambling "where's the gun, I've got to kill myself."  Rather than stick around and risk being shot in addition to my near-fatal stab wounds, I ran to the neighbor's house for help.   Also much like LVal's story, the neighbors did not want to let me in.  Concerned that he--my spouse might follow me to finish what he started, I put my fist through the window in my neighbor's front door, reached in, unlocked the deadbolt and let myself in. Unlike LVal's situation, my neighbor's wife eventually recognized me and they were "less disturbed" about what I had done.   Once inside, I collapsed inside the doorway--I also nearly bled out; they covered my wounds and applied pressure in an effort to stop the bleeding until the ambulance arrived.   While that was going on, the neighbor from across the street arrived with a shotgun which he kept aimed at the door in the event my spouse did follow me.  He did not hide, peering through curtains, he acted to help.

"Fortunately," other than a punctured, collapsed lung, and the loss of nearly half of my blood, none of my other vital organs were damaged.  My wounds were very deep; a couple centimeters either way, could easily have changed the outcome. I survived without physical limitations, though my scars are daily reminders; the mental repercussions have been debilitating.

I was lucky because he killed himself.  I did not have to experience the ordeal of a trial, pretrial or parole hearings, etc.  Because it was domestic violence, a sentence commensurate with what he did to me was unlikely anyway.   Best of all, I did not have to worry about him following me, finding me, stalking me, and wonder when and where he would show up to try again.   I do, however, live in fear, do not leave forwarding addresses when I move, only have unlisted phone numbers; other members of his demented family could show up one day.   I certainly do not have a page or blog on any of the popular sights that many do.

I don't know anything about witness protection programs.  I am certain that little funding is available, and that option is only available in the most egregious circumstances.   I would still make a great deal of noise to get the attention of anyone in a position to help.   I also understand distrust of the police; I have several friends in law enforcement I do trust, one a U.S Marshall another in the F.B.I., not to mention a plethora of attorney friends. Yes, I am in a different position than your co-workers, few people have my contacts.

As far as the theory that "what goes around comes around" goes, I believe that eventually it does for some; however, how many more murders will the person commit before "he gets his?"  The families have a right to see justice, although there is no true justice when you have lost a loved one.  Nor do I believe anyone in these circumstance ever truly finds closure, whatever the outcome in the justice system.  I don't believe many of us believe that imprisonment serves to rehabilitate.   Nor do I believe the prospect of incarceration serves as a deterrent to others inclined to commit violent crimes; prison deters each particular criminal from committing crime (outside the prison) during his term which protects the public from him until his release.  That leaves retribution. (I am not going into utilitarian philosophy)   I firmly subscribe to the practice of retributive justice.   Most people in this country do.

Nobody deserves to endure what that family, many others, LVal and I went through.   No innocent person should have to live with the demons and fear crime survivors experience.   No family should have to live through the murder of a loved one.   From my perspective, there would be no choice.  If I was in a position to help that family and prevent it from happening to others, I would have to.  I would risk my life if necessary.  And if faced with the situation, I would not hesitate to shoot to kill to protect my life or anothers.   I know how I react when my life is threatened.   Heroically.

I'm glad things worked out for you both.  I really don't know what I would do in such a situation myself because I have never come close to being in such a relationship.  I know I would probably fight the best I could though.

If I was seeing something wrong going on or a crime being committed, I would definitely say something.  Perpetrators should not be given the chance to do it again. 

There have been a couple of programs on television by one of the networks not that long ago.  They created a number of different scenarios just to see what people would do.  One example was an older man in a wheelchair being abused by his caretaker while walking in the park.  They were actors, but they didn't know that.  It was scary and sad to see people just standing there and looking and others just walking away.  Of all the people that saw the abuse taking place, less than 25% of them said something whether it was directly to the perpetrator or calling 911 on their cell phone.

All I know is that I would hope if anything ever happens to me and I am put into a dangerous situation that there is going to be someone nearby who helps and not walks away.   

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