Are Indians Really smarter
Than Americans? I'm just livid about all these computer professional jobs going to India, and the likes of China. Just received in my email information on a contract position in the SF Bay Area. I live in the L.A. Area. Never on my resume did I list I had experience for a Network Security Analyst. I also filled out in my career builder profile, I was not interested in relocating. Another one I got a few weeks ago the same agency (but a different Indian rep) forgot to list all the job requirements. It's about time our elected officials wake up, and smell the coffee. No more H1B Visas. It isn't a problem with the Mexicans taking low skill low paying jobs, Our jobs are being sent overseas because the corrupt politicians take contributions from corporations to ship these good paying j IT jobs abroad. What are your views? Actually it is our fault. India and China graduates more engineers than the United States. I believe India turns out something like 5,000 engineering graduates to our 2,500. Our kids today are not pushed into the sciences or technology so we are losing out. You go into any college or hospital and you will see a lot of Indian (East Indian) doctors and researchers. They are here because we cannot find suitable equivalents here in the States. But it is not their fault. If you are in demand, you will go to wherever they can use your talents. In a Capitalist nation, you are going to see companies trying to stretch their dollars and if they can save by going overseas, then that is what they do. It is not the governments fault. We have to become socialists or communists first.
Got to agree with you on this one OC. As much as it Peeves me for every single SAP technical or Functional position that I have posted today (32) I get twice as many Indian applicants as I do American.
"Got to agree with you on this one OC. As much as it Peeves me for every single SAP technical or Functional position that I have posted today (32) I get twice as many Indian applicants as I do American. " How much of that has to do with Americans training Indians for positions like these so they can hire them on the cheap? ...or do you happen to believe that Americans are just so stupid they can't learn how to function on SAP as well as Indians do? I can't tell if you are commenting on the intelligence of Americans, or the cheapness of businesses. Last I heard, a very large percentage of Indian engineering graduates are so poorly educated they are not fit to enter the field. "Our kids today are not pushed into the sciences or technology so we are losing out." Better yet, kids who are pushed into sciences and technology are losing out. They're entering career paths that end up with career choices like those we used to think of for history and English majors. You know... the old 'how about getting a degree in something useful' argument. We have too much science and tech knowledge for the job market anyway... and we will continue until the 'nobody is good enough for us' argument from Big Business ends. I'll believe we're in a global economy when I can hop on a plane to Beijing and open up any ol' business I want. America doesn't train them. Indian Universities train them on the software and churn them out into the market. Then Infosys, TATA, and others hire them on the cheap in Bombay and Mumbai to work in the call centers and the off-shore shops for 6 to 18 months to get their credentials. Once they have their "real world" creds they bring them over on H1-B's. Once here there is nothing to stop them from seeking other employment. The sad fact is that there are only a couple of Universities in the US that teach SAP as part of an IT degree and that is only for a semester. Huge difference. That is just in my field. Can't speak to other fields.
India like Mexico benefits from companies and corporations oursourcing their production needs. The global market wasn't much until the economic collapse started to occur within the US. Overhead costs, labor costs, health insurance, payroll taxes, property taxes, income redistribution, not to mention the pressures of shareholders, SEC regulators, and US. federal/state regulations, guidelines and restrictions. Why deal with all that mess when you can just move or expand, or better yet - outsource. So, as I said, if it wasn't for that, India would be just another middle eastern peasant country fearing an invasion by Saddam Hussein ( Iraq ) The Imams and Mulahs of Iran, the radical jihadists of Al Qaeda or escalated aggression from their eastern neighbors - Pakistan with whom they almost came to war with in 2001. So, no, I would say they are not smart, just damn lucky.
Here's what I want to see our educators do. Starting from kindergarten, teachers have to encourage our children to pursue science, math, medicine and even computer technology. The United States was the first industrialized nation after World War II. We were known as the country that was innovative and created exciting new technologies. We built machines, robots and other technology the world wanted and needed. Ford created the automobile assembly line and churned out the Model T Fords. They were very good at it and then the Japanese not only copied it they reinvented it! We need ou kids to think outside the box and to find out the whys and hows of what makes our life tick. I know we have the talent and I know we have brilliant minds that can some day unlock the mystery of science questions. We can once again be the leader of the world if our kids will pursue science, medicine, education and business in general. The United States is still a leader in Space Exploration but we need scientists to push the envelope. We need educated astronauts. And to do that you need people who are interested in these fields. But the cost of education is getting out of hand. It can cost upwards to $100,000 to graduate an engineering student at a good university. We have to instill education over 'show me the money'. Once we do that, America will prosper again. I have faith America will once again be a leader. "The sad fact is that there are only a couple of Universities in the US that teach SAP as part of an IT degree and that is only for a semester. Huge difference. " OK. So let's say US universities all had CS/MIS/etc majors take SAP classes for a full (2 term) year. I'll say they are 4 credit hour courses each, or about a quarter of a full 15 credit hour schedule. How many of the 32 positions you posted would these college grads qualify for with a fresh degree and no experience?
Folks I really question the so called fact thatthe US doesn't train enough engineers and scientists. From where I sitevery time we put out a job notice we get literally hundreds of peopleapplying. Further I am one of those people that years ago pursued mathematics, science,and engineering. I have an advanced degree to prove it and am currentlyworking on a second master's degree. I have nearly two decades of realworld experience in "hot" technologies. What do I see? Isee hundreds of people like me applying for single positions where Iwork. I see others like me who are under employed. The reality is that offshoring and H1-B's are used for one reason and onereason only. They are CHEAP. I see it first hand everyday. They are not better, faster, or smarter. They are just cheaper. As far as where America stands lets remember the US was only a leading powerpost WWII because Europe was devastated and the US took over as the dominateworld leader for engineering, science, commerce, etc. This was anadvantage that was a bi-product of war not because the US is magical. Notto mention Western Civilization has only been on "top of the world"for a few hundred years where previously Asia was much more influential for thousands of years. Without conscious tending to the economy and loyalty to the country the naturalforces gravitate away from the US. As, what are essentially, US companiesabandon the US and US universities continue to train foreign competition youwill continue to see this trend. In the short-term this makes US companies profitable, but in the long-term thistrend will devastate US companies and the US economy. At some point the "power"that US companies currently hold dissipates as the rest of the world says"we don't need you any more". It may not be politically correct to make economic war on the rest of theworld, but folks that is the brutal reality of how the world outside of the USreally works. Sorry, this is the first opportunity I have had to reply to your question. It is a bit of a two edged sword. If they only took 1 year? It would be tough for them to find a position with a consulting firm in the SAP market. That is why the Indian university trained grads have it over ours out of the gate, they actually are receiving extended degrees that include "boot camp" training in specific areas. If instead they had Business Finance, Accounting, or Logistics Degrees with SAP Boot Camp educations such as many of the Indians come with? They could get into the any of the consulting organizations as junior consultants in a hot flash, including mine. Their starting pay, first year would be between $40K-$55K + 10% utilization bonus, depending upon market and speciality. They would receive additional training over their first 18 months and their utilization requirement would be 50% rather than the standard 75% of most consultants. The CS/MIS degrees are only good for a few specific areas of the SAP environment. The same applies though as above. The truly technical areas of SAP are very interesting and can be rewarding for those who prursue this path. The difference is that they are not as broad and don't change as rapidly. The only other area, specifically development itself is not ever an area that I recommend to anyone when it comes to SAP. The reason being is that most of the real development (RICE(f)) is done offshore these days. I don't see this changing. Hope this answers your question. | |
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