Be Grateful if You Do Have a JobI've been laid off a couple of times over the past decade and it makes me appreciate my job every single day. I see that GM workers (73,000+) are striking. Go figure! It seems that many times people in good jobs don't realize how good they have it and want even more. They don't realize that there are thousands of people out there who are unemployed who would gladly take their spots.
All due respect, Penguin, but unless you're part of the contract negotiation in some way, I don't think you should be passing judgment. This country was built on the backs of its blue collar workers, and the unions have fought hard to make sure that those workers were given a fair deal. Don't disrespect the union's decision to call a strike unless you have some specific knowledge that they're not acting in their members' best interest.
I have worked in more than one company where I saw the union negotiations and how they progressed very closely via either working for a boss who was responsible for negotiating with the union or now at a law firm where the attorneys and labor specialists are directly involved in various union negotiations where it be warehouse workers, teachers, clerical staff, paraprofesionals, police, water departments, fire fighters. The union officials I've seen don't always think very realistically. For example, the few companies who still have 100% company paid insurance get into a major hissy fit when the company proposes that the employee pay a mere 5% toward the premium because of the escalating insurance costs over the last several years. The norm is most companies nowadays is 20% or more. That's just one example of many. The unions just don't want to budge on anything moving into the future. They're stuck in another century where they think the employee shouldn't pay for insurance at all and that they should get huge raises. And it's not just the blue collar people who have made this country. It's a lot of white collar people too. I'm not saying anything about other negotiations. I'm talking about this particular negotiation. The major issue (among other sticking issues) is the UAW's unwillingness to sell out retirees' medical benefits. Did you even know that? Look at these SPECIFIC facts before you judge. That's all I'm saying. Remember, I also work in a law firm, and my major in college was labor issues. I'm currently working on a masters thesis in labor negotiations. I'm very well versed in this field, so don't try to trot out your credentials to say you know more than I. I didn't pull that sh*t with you. I'm also not saying unions are always right. But unions have done a lot for America, and I don't like to hear anyone dissing them without looking at the facts. As for blue collar v. white collar - where the heck did that come from? There were precious few "white collar" jobs when the unions started organizing blue collar workers. And those few jobs were generally administrative jobs in the blue collar factories. PL too, I agree with every thing you said about unions, outatwork! I also like your attitude, PL, about being grateful to have a job. There is an appalling lack of gratitude and appreciation for simple and basic things in many people today about working and life in general. They are not satisfied; they want more; they are bored; they complain; they compare their situation to others and this goes on and on. Yet - they do nothing helpful to improve things on the job! I have always been grateful to have a job. I am easily satisfied and contented. The older I get, the more gratitude and appreciation I have. It's just not fashionable to be grateful these days for anything and it is even less fashionable to express your satisfaction about being able to go to work every day. Be grateful that you are working. If you do not like your job, do something constructive about this. Start looking for something else and when you get an offer you cannot refuse, move on to something better. If you feel that you must continue working where you are for reasons that make sense to you, make your job your own. Make it a better job. Do more; try harder; get along better with your boss and coworkers. Quit complaining. Many people would like to have your life. Think about what you have and not about what you do not have.
Bunzo PL, The MI plant you are ref to makes the latest models and may be able to get away with a job action. The other GM plants in my area which closed down did so because of foreign competition, costs (of course) and the refusal of the famously bloated GM management to wake up when they began to lose market share in the 1970's and 1980's. They steadfastly refused to change and update anything until it was too late and the market share had gone to imports. The quality of many of their models suffered and Americans stopped buying them. Getting back customers after they have left is the toughest and most expensive way to gain buyers. GM never did. Implying that the unions are solely responsible for the failures in heavy industry ignores the global competition we sponsored when we rebuilt Japan with the Marshall Plan after WWII. We handed them the check and got them back up to speed and then they took off from there. So, we paid for the rise of industry in Japan and it came back to bite us later in the 1970's. Unions had nothing to do with that. The UAW states that it has seen its members hand give-backs to the company for years and whether that is the sole reason for the job action, I don't know. Both parties have had contentious relations for many years and I suspect that if the UAW wants to keep some membership dues, they had better look tough. I have also heard that negotiations are ongoing so this strike may be short-lived. I share your feeling that workers who have decent benefits should be happy to have them but if you already had them and were asked to give them back, you might feel differently. Taking back benefits creates a lot of hostility no matter where it happens. Unions have their pluses and minuses. In the case of the UAW, those employees are earning more than the minimum wage. Some of those workers are making $25 to $30 per hour. How about those grocery store clerks who are now earning $11 to $17 per hour. Those people deserve a higher pay too. Because of the UAW's demands, it adds some $2,000 to each of the cars they manufacture. I strongly support union workers but I know some UAW retirees who are earning a nice retirement in the high $40k range plus they receive Social Security too. They are lucky. Some folks do not have that luzury. I'm talking about unions in general, but since you want to talk about GM, I don't feel any differently. BTW -- I'm not judging anyone. I'm giving my opinion. Right away you start getting personal by putting down my credentials and saying you're better. I didn't do that. You're the one being judgmental. Besides, you're not directly involved in GM's negotiations either. I know enough about the case. It doesn't look like they want to take away any benefits. It looks like they simply want to put them into a different type of account. I personally don't have any use for unions. They did do some good things in their early years but things have changed drastically. I formed my opinion on seeing them in action over the years. Besides, why should only certain employees have unions and not others? That's not right.
I've been laid off a couple of times over the past decade and it makes me appreciate my job every single day. I see that GM workers (73,000+) are striking. Go figure! It seems that many times people in good jobs don't realize how good they have it and want even more. They don't realize that there are thousands of people out there who are unemployed who would gladly take their spots................except xttwo of course, he wants and quite frankly deserves more money and status. ( now this message sounds a lot better ) OK, Penguin. I don't want to get into an argument with you over this, but hear me out. "I'm talking about unions in general, but since you want to talk about GM, I don't feel any differently." Actually, you're the one who brought up the GM strike. In the original post you said, "I see that GM workers (73,000+) are striking. Go figure!" Somehow, I assumed that this thread was about the GM strike. Hmmm. Wonder how I got that idea. Unions in general weren't brought up until later. Remember? "BTW -- I'm not judging anyone. I'm giving my opinion. Right away you start getting personal by putting down my credentials and saying you're better. I didn't do that. You're the one being judgmental." Again, what you say here just doesn't comport with the facts. In message 525.3 YOU said "I have worked in more than one company where I saw the union negotiations and how they progressed very closely... now at a law firm where the attorneys and labor specialists are directly involved..." Read what you posted again, Penguin. It's basically saying, "I know more than you, so shut up." I countered by giving you some of my credentials. You said in the OP that "people in good jobs don't realize how good they have it and want even more." That's not being judgmental? Than what the heck is it? I responded, "Don't disrespect the union's decision to call a strike unless you have some specific knowledge that they're not acting in their members' best interest." That's all I've been saying all along. How am I being judgmental? I certainly never said I was better than you. Just that I do actually know something about this issue, so don't just dismiss my words. Besides, you're not directly involved in GM's negotiations either. True. And actually that's my point. Neither one of us is in the negotiations. So we shouldn't judge. Since you are so well versed in this process, you know that the union didn't just call a strike. They don't have that power. They called for a strike vote back in August. The union members voted on whether or not to strike if certain conditions were not met at the negotiations. A majority of the union members voted to strike if those conditions were not met. Those conditions were not met at the contract negotiations. So the union called a strike. I choose to give the majority of the 73,000 UAW members who voted to strike the benefit of the doubt that they did not agree lightly to leave their jobs and accept $200 a week in strike pay instead of their MUCH larger salaries, and that they acted in their best interest. You choose not to believe that they know what they're doing better than you do. So be it. I choose to disagree with you. I know enough about the case. It doesn't look like they want to take away any benefits. It looks like they simply want to put them into a different type of account. Actually, you're mistaken. Please review again. Currently the corporation covers healthcare insurance for retirees. What they want to do is wipe out any responsibility the corporation has for current and future retirees' healthcare by creating a fund now to draw from in the future. No one can say whether that fund will be sufficient to pay for the care these people will need. It's just not possible to predict that. However, the union is still looking at this proposal and has not rejected it. The union doesn't want benefits taken away from its workers. Would you like it if your employer suddenly decided not to give you vacation time? Or cover your health insurance? I personally don't have any use for unions. They did do some good things in their early years but things have changed drastically. I formed my opinion on seeing them in action over the years. And here we actually have the crux of the issue. You just don't like unions or think they're relevant today. And you're certainly entitled to this opinion, which you share with most conservatives. However, the 15.4 million people who belong to unions today might disagree with you. That represents 12% of wage and salary workers in the U.S. Others who might disagree with you are Wal-Mart workers, who have been trying to unionize for years, only to be met with ILLEGAL actions by Wal-Mart to stop any union organizing activity (do some legal research on this and see how many times Wal-Mart has been before the NLRB and has been sued). Also disagreeing with you would be workers at McDonalds, who have been trying in some areas to unionize for decades. McDonalds corporation has been known to go so far as to fire ALL employees at a store, close the store, and build and open one directly across the street in order to stop employees from unionizing. I see the good unions do every day in making sure that decent, working class people have a living wage, good benefits for their families, and some dignity. I work with union members, union organizers, and people who want to unionize every day. You'd be amazed at the good unions are still doing if you only took the time to see. Besides, why should only certain employees have unions and not others? That's not right. OK, I don't understand this at all. Certainly you're aware, having worked with union negotiations in the past and now with attorneys and labor specialists, as you tell us, that ANYONE can unionize if they want to? If you're interested in being a member of a union, by all means, contact the nearest SEIU (Service Employees International Union) Local. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you organize your workplace. They cover office workers in many industries. Or, if you don't like the SEIU, you can organize your workplace into your own union. Individuals have done this for decades. Anyone can organize. The NLRA guarantees employees' right to organize. So what's not right? That your industry hasn't done so? Well, take charge then! | |
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