Help with chaotic, unethical companyHello Everyone and thanks for any input. This is a copy of a post I just made in another area of this board. Please excuse me if this is bad netiquette. I wasn't sure where to post it! I just left a truly awful job where, as an exempt employee, I regularly worked 12-15 hour days and weekends. I asked my employer numerous times to post my job and replace me so that I could work at all of the million other things that needed to get done. No one there had done a start up before except me, and they were really overwhelmed. But he didn't pay attention, since he was just as overworked as I was. So after numerous requests, and e-mails where I expressed my grave concerns about the situation, I wrote up a letter giving my notice to him. I thought he needed something in writing. I also asked him to make sure that everything was done right, because I had never received a copy of the corporation's employee manual. I gave it to him two Sundays ago (we were both at work), but we didn't speak about it because we were both busy. He also tends to be passive in the face of conflict. The next morning, as I was starting on an intense work week where I had to direct the work of five other employees, my boss came in and told me it would be my last day. He said that corporate HR had read "I give my notice effective immediately" as "I resign effective immediately." Duh. I told him to fix it and left to take care of my work, and he said he'd try. Throughout the day, all the other employees called him and read him the riot act. I finally had a break and told him that I had given my notice to him personally, not to corporate, and that he needed to do an exit interview so that we could figure out how I would transfer my work and my expertise to others. But by that time, his back was up, and he said that he had made the decision to accept my resignation. Jeez. So everyone was disrupted, and the business faltered, and is still in free fall. I was paid some very weird amount which makes no sense, and was not reimbursed for my expenses or the use of my personal cell phone (did I tell you that we had no phones for the first month, and no computers or internet access until the Wednesday before I gave my notice?). This would all be a bad dream if the business weren't centered on providing services to autistic, asperger's and learning disabled youth who had moved into the area to be served by the corporation, which had started a new branch in July. I slept most of last week, and have begun eating normally again. The employees are checking in with me, and the situation is truly awful and getting worse each day. I have gotten my resilience back, and am now looking at my options. Do I call the president of the corporation and tell him what is going on? I didn't see anyone from the corporation who was allowed to be competent, so going underneath the president doesn't seem to be a very good idea. It's a very chaotic company. Do I go to the parents of the children? I signed a standard agreement that says I cannot say anything "disparaging" about the company. If the truth is disparaging, what is my liability? But one of the things I noticed is that these parents are used to getting the dregs of services, and to being lied to. I don't want to burst their dreams, but I also don't want to stand by when a scam is occurring. I'm going to the Labor board today to see if I am due the pay for the 2 or 4 weeks that should have followed my resignation. I also want to know about all my unpaid expenses. I've looked at Legal Aid in the community, but they only handle family court issues. What do I do in a wretched situation like this? Thanks again. Your questions in reverse order: What are you thinking that you need a lawyer for? What would you propose if you found one? You aren't due any pay for the 2 or 4 weeks that you didn't work. It's always a possibility when you give notice that you will be asked to leave immediately and as long as you are paid for the time you worked up until that point, that's all that you are entitled to. Not terribly good for you, granted, but that's the chance you take. What would you do by going to the parents of the children? What would you expect them to do? You may feel like you owe them an explanation, but if they are the company's clients, not yours, you really don't. The most that you could see if you happened to run into them would be something like, "It just broke my heart to leave, but I just couldn't stay there. There were circumstances." And stop talking. What would you expect the president to do? Immediately swoop in and make order out of chaos? I am not at all belittling your really basic urge to "fix this", but I'm not sure that it's your problem to fix. And continuing to try without a current connection to the company is a really bad idea. Count your blessings, pray for the parents and the kids, and move on. Here's a bunch of stuff I'm sure you're not going to want to hear: 1. You gave your notice. It is your employer's perogative to accept it and to determine if it is effecitive before the date you propose or not. I'm assuming when you say "gave notice" you mean you gave an end date 2 weeks out? They can let you go the minute you turn it in if you want and frankly, that's become more and more common since someone who is cranky is likely to cause bad feelings among the remaining staff. And before you ask, no, they don't have to pay you for any days you don't work (the rest of the two weeks). 2. You do not determine the exit process. The company does. You don't quit the boss, you quit the company. The company has rules and regulations, policies, practices and just decisions they make at the time. You don't dictate those. It was not up to you to tell him that he had to do an exit interview and to demand that he "fix" the immediate notice issue. 3. You will not be reimbursed for your expenses or use of your cell phone unless you had an agreement for reimbursement. Did you just ASSUME you would be reimbursed? Did you get someone to AUTHORIZE these expenses? If not (or if you can't prove it), write it off. If so, submit a request (with receipts). 4. You are out of your mind if you're going to go complaining to the president of the corporation about chaos when they're starting up a new branch. In most companies that is by definition chaotic. No one wants your opinion on that point, especially now that you've quit in a huff. It will come off like a ton of sour grapes. If you have any hope of a good or neutral reference, you will totally screw that with a move like this. 5. You are even more out of your mind if you go to the parents complaining. Not only can they sue you since you have specifically signed an agreement on this point, what is your purpose in the greater good of humanity? You claim to care about these children. Do you really think their parents need additional stress from you? If they feel the services are sub-standard, they will pull out of the program. Stay out of it. The only value you will be adding is to get your warped sense of revenge. You will not be helping anyone else. Move on, choose more wisely in the future and don't be your own worst enemy.
Tess
Wow Tess, that's some ugly behavior masquerading as advice! I'm beginning to understand why the work world is in such an wretched state. As I was living through this job, I kept saying to myself" "This is what people go through all the time. This is what life is like among the stiffs and the straights. This is how people allow themselves to be treated. This is what passes for work" And this is why the standards of ethics and business regularly go unheeded while everyone stands around and makes excuses for corporations and their absurdly wasteful and unprofessional behaviors. But thanks for stating your responses so clearly. Nicely done - to question my sanity and label me as a complainer and a crank while you stand up for a corporate entity just on the idea of it? In a workplace full of exhausted people, I worked the longest, took care of everyone, and had the only department that functioned. The only person who knew how I felt was my boss, and he was too petrified about making waves to ever be effective. The corporation was and still is in freefall because they are image-besotted and growing like a cancer at the end of some kudzu. They are completely in the wrong and the thing is going to blow up in their faces. I had just hoped to get a group of vulnerable children out of the way before it did. If you think that's crazy, then I'm happy to be insane, and I will fly my freak flag high. For you to go off the rails about a situation you have no conceptualization of, to attack a human being, and defend a corporation is some bass ackwards behavior, but it will definitely get you ahead in the corporate world. Feh.
A few thoughts: First of all Tess is correct. When you give 2 weeks notice it is always with the understanding that the company can have security escort you to the door at any time. Secondly, You state you never read the HR manual. Well, that was a mistake and it cost you. Asking your boss to "fix" things so you stay the full two weeks clearly was not an option. You and your boss clearly did not have the kind of working relationship where he would want or feel he needed to keep you to transition. His call and HR's call, NOT yours. Even in a nonprofit. You are only entitled to payment for time worked, not for the last couple weeks or a month you did not. Thirdly, "Are you out of your mind" is not casting doubts on your sanity but it is a reality check. It is a signal to stop and think about what you are saying and doing and whether or not the course of action you are planning on is a good idea or a career killer. Lastly, why are you still stirring the pot at a place you no longer work? Move on and learn from this experience and try and communicate better with management about their expectations for you. Haha - I realize that I didn't give any of you enough information, and you're all reacting as if this is a real company with an actual business plan and structure. And that I am some sort of disgruntled employee with a chip on my shoulder. What I always want to know is - who are the gruntled employees? It wasn't that way at all, but I understand your rushing to judgment, blamecasting, and jumping to incorrect conclusions. I didn't "not read" the manual - they never gave it to me. It was the most chaotic, out of control growth I had ever seen, and each day I kept expecting it to get better (because it couldn't get worse, right?), but it never did. There was never a good, or graceful, or easy time to quit, because things never settled down. The corporation had just taken on an investor group and was opening like a dozen new offices at the same time, and they had no plan. Everything everywhere was on fire, and our branch was considered the least important fire because no one here was nuts. People love to tell themselves that if they left their job, the whole place would fall apart without them. It's a silly form of egocentrism, and it keeps many grumpy people in jobs they don't like. But imagine if your leaving really would shut the place down. It's actually a truly awful thing - heartbreaking. It's like watching someone you love fall into drug abuse, and knowing that you have to stand back until they hit bottom and wake up - if they can. Because we had worked for so long with no manuals, no paperwork, no computers, no internet, no phones, and no support structure, most of the information about the job was in my head, or on handwritten notes I had made. When I left, I honest to God took the information out the door in my cranium. And the business could honestly not proceed. Not because I'm special, though I certainly am, but because the total lack of structure and support from corporate required that I become a walking database and encyclopedia about all aspects of the business. I realize that my boss actually protected me by letting me go that day. We became very close - like soldiers in trenches, and I think he pushed me out to save me. Everyone there is sick this week, because they're sleep deprived and emotionally wrought. I don't think any of ever had the time to eat lunch two days in a row. I just found out this morning that the person who stepped into my job has been fired (this is one week after the change), but that person was openly hostile to my boss, and I knew that the behavior would tear the place apart. This person WAS talking to the parents, and was saying very unkind things about my boss. I think a parent triangulated and got that person fired. I'm astonished, but very proud of my boss. I mean, right now, they just need warm bodies, and he got rid of a toxic person. I knew that my boss was in the wrong position, but I had a lot of empathy for him. Corporate treated him very unkindly, and they would give him permission to do things or hire people, and then rescind that permission. After I left, he had to unhire two people and reduce another from full to part time. And we were desperately understaffed when I left, so what the huh? When I left - I told him I didn't send anything to corporate because I don't know them from Adam, and we both know that they're in freefall. He is as little a friend to corporate as I am, and I wanted us to figure out, in our own way, how best to make the transition. But he is swamped, and overwhelmed, and sleep-deprived, and exhausted, and I think he just pushed me out so that someone could be safe from the chaos. I've read about 2-week and 4-week notice on this and other boards, and most people say that their final 2 weeks were yuck, and that people blamed them for things and got all emotional and so forth. I think it's best that I left then, because the continued destabilization really needed to happen. The corporation is drunk with dreams of avarice and high on their own inflated image, and they need to hit bottom. Hard. I realize that none of you can fathom the wildness at my former job, because it's not to be believed. It's like the Keystone Cops meets the Three Stooges, but no one is laughing. Everyone, to a person, is being hurt, and destabilized, and burnt out. And there's no good reason for it. As for getting references, or trying to further my career - ewww. This can't be about saving my own ass. It has to be about what's right, what's honest, what's courageous, and what's best for everyone. I am standing by and watching, and meeting with the parents who request it, and with the kids who do. Everyone knows why I left, so I don't have to go into anything. I just focus on them and how they're doing. One child has left the program, but is staying in the area, and we're going to an art store on Friday, just to hang out. The current employees are calling to use me as a sounding board, and I'm helping them find ways to stay safe and healthy in the morass. Sometimes, just being able to talk helps more than anything else. To know you're not crazy. And to know that a someone witnesses your struggle and supports you as a human being. Regardless of the cost. So thanks for the strange advice and scapegoating and the unsupported assumptions. Your responses helped me realize that the reason I couldn't think of a solution is because this is an insane, not-to-be-believed situation. I know what to do now. Support, love, listen, and help. The rest is just paperwork, and totally unimportant. If you've got a job where people are just cranky or untalented, and your corporation is just a little bit idiotic, count your lucky stars today. And if you have the time in your day to eat lunch, take a deep breath and be thankful!
Tess gives very good advice actually and I find that she just doesnt pull punches and says it like it is like she did to you and I tend to agree with everything she and others said. You arent owed any pay if you didnt work, you should have it in writing to be reimbursed for your cell phone use. And if you signed something stating no bad mouthing then they can enforce that if you do attack them to anyone . You could very well find yourself in a mess of legal hassles if you meet with thpse parents - you are not involved with their children anymore by any way since the only way you ever were, was through your job and you no longer hold that job. I wouldnt touch those parents with a ten foot pole - cause you are just asking to trouble. You might feel a moral obligation to them but why would you honestly ? You wouldnt have ever been exposed to them if not fot he job. It isn’t your place anymore. As to the employees calling you, what do they possibly hope to gain from that ? They still work for that company and you don’t and they really have no business calling you for advice, you really have no impact on giving any in relation to their jobs and their company. As to the 2 – 4 weeks pay you are referring to that you might have seen mention of – it is not unusual for a company to receive notice and then decide to not go through with the last 2 weeks and tell the person to leave – some will go ahead and pay you for the notice time frame but they are under no obligation to do so. OP: "Hello Everyone and thanks for any input." Or not. Tess and the others are correct. You opted to leave, it's time to look ahead and gear up for you next(?) job. You said the corporation was opening many branches, which means they have the personnel to re-staff the one you left if they so choose. Unless you were working as a human database for every branch, your personal knowledge is not a keystone to their operations or success. Your immediate dismissal bears this out. If you want to help the kids, get work at another help organization and enroll them in programs that will help them out in case your former company fails. Do not be the undocumented stranger meeting kids without paperwork or supervision. Let your legal team do its job. If you have grievances and claims against the company, file your paperwork, write your narrative of what happened during your tenure and oversight, and then let your representatives work for you. Karass, "It's actually a truly awful thing - heartbreaking. It's like watching someone you love fall into drug abuse, and knowing that you have to stand back until they hit bottom and wake up - if they can." Karass, you are still emotionally involved not with a person but with the company. Your heart can't accept that this disaster is taking place because you put your heart and soul into it. You tried to save it and care for it until you could not take it anymore, so you quit. You always ask yourself, "What if I had done this or that? What if I had been able to make this work?", etc. What if you had been Superman? At some point, all of us reach our limits of tolerance for insane situations and impossible conditions. You finally reached yours, after working so hard for so long. Did anyone there ever appreciate all the work and heartache you went through? Did you feel that there was any recognition of the enormous effort you made? Did the corporate people call and say thanks? It is in your nature to care and protect and try to fix everything. That is your field, too. For you, giving up is the ultimate hurt. You would rather tunnel through a mountain with your bare hands than give up but you have to put distance between this bad situation and your life from now on. You left and for all the best reasons and tearing yourself up over this debacle of a company is not going to help you or those who are staying with this sinking ship. You can't save anything or anybody anymore. It is out of your hands and it is time to let go. It hurts to have to watch this disaster but you have no role to play there anymore. Stop taking calls and trying to coach anyone. You have no place there despite all the previous effort. You finally quit. It is over for you and thank god for it. They will go on making a mess of things and people will get hurt and you can't change that. Bad and terrible decisions will go on being made. You can't change anything and you couldn't if you were still working there either. I understand the feeling of seeing effort get wasted and seeing something that you care about going down the tubes. The only bright spot is that you are not involved in it and have a chance to go on to better things. You're going to have to realize that you are not responsible for everything anymore. You can let go of feeling responsible for every detail and every duty and every mess left by everyone else. They will have to take care of themselves without you playing Mommy for every employee and every unnecessary problem. The foul-ups are not yours to fix anymore. In your line of work, you are used to being hyper-responsible and that is hard to unlearn. Try to unlearn that as fast as possible. You can't help or protect or fix any more messes there and they are ripping and running so fast that no one is in charge anyway. It is a mess and you can't help them. Stop breaking your own heart over this and quickly. You have to go on with your new life. I have had experience working in some completely unbelievable situations and if I wrote about them, no one would ever believe it either. I don't worry about it. No one else ever can invalidate what I have seen and been through. Therefore, reactions from people who weren't there mean nothing to me. You may as well talk to someone in a foreign language. No business plan? Yeah, I know. No clue, no idea, no anything? Par for the course. As you continue in your working life you will be exposed to situations you cannot believe more than once and no one would ever understand it. You can't accept it either and this will keep breaking your heart until you can put this hell behind you. As long as the company and the personnel will leave you alone, go forward and never look back. You can't help anyone anymore and you can't save a sinking ship alone.
I really do not know anything about such things any longer since I am out of the corporate game for the most part, but I know enough to tell you that since you posted a message on this and other Forums, you should be prepared to pay attention to advice and comments from managerial people whether you like their input or not or agree with them or not. These are the educated opinions of people like Tess who have been managers and supervisors for many years and are familiar with the policies of corporations. You should not take her comments so seriously that your feelings are hurt or you are angry. That doesn't make sense. We are all here to learn and improve ourselves and we can do it here for FREE. It does not cost money to get expert advice and you do not have to leave your home. You made some mistakes in judgment. You definite did! We all do! Learn from them and don't repeat them and learn to accept constructive criticism without crumbling. Good luck!
Bunzo | |
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Career Tips
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